Crosman M4-177

[larryh1108]

Hi, brand new to air guns.

I just moved and I have a back yard where I can shoot my pellets off my back deck. This means easy and fun trigger time.

I've put about 100 pellets thru it so far and it's been fun and I find the accuracy acceptable. I have some questions since I am new to to the air gun scene.

It the M4-177 a good choice for a beginner?

What are the thoughts about this particular gun for just general plinking?

Why isn't the tip orange?

I've been reading that you need an air rifle scope for spring air guns. Is this a spring air gun?

I don't want to go the CO2 route (extra costs) so what about a break barrel gun for the next purchase when my arm is ready to fall off from all the pumping? Are they tougher to pump for my wife? I've read that some are 40# to pump. How does that compare to the 9th and 10th pump on the pump I have? (I'd hate to spend the money and find that it is too difficult for a petite lady).

Thanks for all the help. I've been reading this forum for a while once I found this place and waited to move. Any and all general suggestions for someone new to air guns is appreciated. What pitfalls should I watch for so I don't waste precious money?

 

[JohnKSa]

It's not a spring-piston rifle, it's a manual pump/variable pump rifle. So any scope that will fit it and meet your needs should work. If you're going to put a firearm scope on it, make sure it's one that will focus as close as you need it to for airgun shooting.

I don't know for certain why the tip isn't orange, but my guess is that it's because it's not, strictly speaking, a toy gun. It still has the capacity to seriously injure the person it's pointed at, so in that sense it wouldn't be a good idea to give someone the idea that it's just a toy.

Variable pump guns are a decent choice for plinking. I plinked many thousand rounds with pump airguns in my youth. The main complaint is that it takes time to pump between shots. Another common complaint is that the triggers are often pretty terrible.

If you want to get a spring-piston (break-barrel) airgun, and you want it exclusively for plinking then stick with something in the 600-700fps range and the cocking effort will be minimal. The spring-piston airguns with heavy cocking effort are usually much higher-powered and that's not at all necessary for plinking. In addition to reduced cocking effort, lower powered springers are much more quiet and are generally easier to shoot accurately.

The main pitfall in airguns is buying exclusively based on advertised muzzle velocity. Unless you're hunting or involved in some competition requiring relatively long shots, muzzle velocity in a springer buys you more noise, more cocking effort, generally less accuracy, more wear and tear on your backstop, and more of a tendency to tear up scopes and loosen stock screws but nothing positive.

 

[larryh1108]

Thanks, John. That was very helpful.

 

[Chevota]

I prefer break barrel guns but pumpers are fun too. I just don't like the pumping part...
Most break barrels take about 30lbs of force at peak to cock, and make ~3-4x the power your M4 does. As John mentioned it is nicer to have a weaker break barrel for plinking, but they don't make many that are weaker so your choices are very limited.
Lower powered models are not as easy to cock as you might think. They could be anywhere from 0-30% easier cocking but 50% of the power, or some models close to 50% easier but only 25% of the power. A bogus trade off imo. So what I prefer is taking a regular full power break barrel model and make it weaker. Doing this will drop the power and cocking effort pretty much 1-1. For example a store bought low power version at say 800fps will likely take 18-24lbs to cock, but if you mod a typical full power gun to 800fps it'll be more like 12. I know because I have one. It's so easy it feels like it cocks itself. And as John mentioned it's quieter, smoother and more accurate. If you wanted to drop the power down to match your M4 then I suppose cocking would be ~8lbs. You probably put 8 or more pounds force into each pump of the M4.
You have to open the gun up to do the mod but that's the deal. Depending on the model you may or may not need to buy a lighter spring to make this happen, but I can explain if you want to try it.

 

[larryh1108]

Thanks for the info and offer.
When I am ready to get a break barrel I will surely come back here to seek the advice you offered.

 

[gspn]

One of the things I've learned about air guns is that they can be picky about which type of pellet they like. One of the best things you can do is buy pellet "samplers" that have multiple types of pellets in one package. It's a small amount of each pellet...but it saves you the cost of buying 200 or 500 pellets only to find out on the 10th shot that they won't shoot well through your gun.

Also keep in mind that sometimes the pellet head-size can make a big difference. I have a .22 cal gun that wouldn't group at all despite running 18 different makes of pellets through it. After talking with some wiser folks they suggested I try a different head size. 22 cal is 5.50mm. BUT due to manufacturing variances, not all barrels are exactly 5.50mm. I bought three more tins of pellets (there goes another $30). They were 5.51, 5.52, and 5.53 mm.

I started with the 5.53's and worked my way down. When I started shooting the 5.51mm pellets the groups closed up super tight. All my pellets were touching in one ragged hole.

Play around with pellets to find the best accuracy from your gun. Buy pellet samplers, and see if your friends have some you can try.

I just got in from the back porch too. I shot my two PCP guns and my break barrel. Then I ordered more pellets!!!

Have fun, and welcome to the air gun club.

 

[larryh1108]

Makes a lot of sense.
Thanks gspn.

 

[JohnKSa]

...they don't make many that are weaker so your choices are very limited.

Unfortunately, this is true. People tend to be so fixated on airgun velocity that the market for the lower-powered springers isn't filled with choices.

Fortunately there are some good ones out there. The Beeman R7 is a good choice in this performance range, as is the HW30S. Both are very similar since they are based on the same internals. Cocking effort for both rifles is under 20lbs and shouldn't present a problem for the vast majority of shooters.

 

[Kookla]

larryh1108- I've found that most of the multi-stroke pneumatic air rifles from are good. My guess is that underneath all that plastic, it probably shares a lot of parts with msps from their other lines.

Is your primary use just fun plinking outdoors? How much of a distance can you safely fire at your targets in your yard?

 

[kBob]

If the Crossman in question is anything like the older AiR-15, which only vaguely looked like an old style AR-15/SP1/ M-16A1, Then one pump will do for plinking. I was shocked to find that Crossman recommended ONLY giving those older guns one pump after years of "Grunt, grunt surely I can get one more pump, maybe if I stand on it....."

My old AiR has a cheap Chinese "Colt style" scope on the carrying handle. I bought the scope for an actual AR and then found I had bought junk. Still it looks cool even if it is only Minute of little green Army man at seven yards.

-kBob

 

[larryh1108]

Here's a link to the rifle.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2011/11/crosmans-new-m4-177-multi-pump-air-rifle-part-2/


It looks pretty realistic though it is made of plastic.
My wife asked why I had my AR out when she first saw it.

I bought it for trigger time off my deck. No hunting. No competition, just fun.
The creek bed behind my house is about 150-175 feet. I've started at 30 yards to get familiar with it and how it shoots/where it shoots. So far I have no complaints and the trigger isn't as bad as I've read unless I don't know what a good air rifle trigger is. I like my trigger pulls at ~4# and it feels a little more than that... maybe 5#-6# but it hasn't been an issue. It recommends 5-10 pumps. I see no need to go over 10 pumps since it seems to be fine for my needs there. No need to push the envelope. It isn't about speed it's about accuracy, IMO.

 

[gspn]

My wife asked why I had my AR out when she first saw it.

Because I've had it up to HERE with these squirrels!!!