Cup and Saucer

[Snarlingiron]

Ok, I monitor what little TV I watch for gun gaffs, and heaven knows there are plenty. One thing I notice lately is the predominance of the "cup and saucer" grip by almost anyone that portrays a police officer. I just visited the website of a training facility run by a gentleman with heavy duty LEO credentials, including SWAT affiliations, and lots of training experience with many police departments. In the photo gallery section there is a section of photos that proudly portray someone firing at plate racks using the "cup and saucer" grip.

I make the assumption (probably wrong) that TV / Movie folks hire consultants such as law enforcement personnel, or gun experts of some sort to school the anti gun actors in how to look real. That may not be the case, I don't know. The bottom line question I have is this:
Is the cup and saucer technique still popular and taught among the law enforcement community? Do the actors on TV, and in movies just share this technique amongst themselves? At the places where I shoot I don't think I have ever seen anyone using it, although it is the way I was originally taught to shoot a handgun many many years ago.

 

[TallPine]

Never heard of it ... what are you talking about...?

 

[mlandman]

Courtesy of Cornered Cat...

 

[El Tejon]

It is more of a case of television/movies reinforcing themselves.

Police agencies are composed of a huge number of people who have absolutely no experience with firearms whatsoever. They do watch a lot of television and see movies.

The new police officer sees the fictional officer hold his weapon that way, so he does as well. Monkey see, monkey do. Just because they have been cops does not mean they know what they are doing. The inverse is also true, just because they have been cops does not mean they have no idea what they are doing.

 

[GRIZ22]

The problem with cup and saucer is it doesn't give as much lateral (left and right) support as a good 2 handed grip. It was popular in LE circles up to the 1970s when someone realized that you can get better support by getting your hands and fingers higher up on the grip.

My attitude has always been if it works for you and it's safe go do it. However, every shooter I've seen using a cup and saucer improved after being taught a more modern two handed grip.

 

[Snarlingiron]

However, every shooter I've seen using a cup and saucer improved after being taught a more modern two handed grip.

My experience exactly.

 

[jerkface11]

A
t

l
e
a
s
t

t
h
e
y

w
e
r
e
n
'
t

h
o
l
d
i
n
g

i
t

s
i
d
e
w
a
y
s
.

 

[pdowg881]

The one time I found it useful was with a .22 pocket pistol that was smaller than my hands. I found that with my large hands it was easier to support the gun cup and saucer style than one handed shooting. I could barely hold on to it wit one hand it was so small.

 

[goon]

I have been advised not to do it in case there is a malfunction with your handgun. In automatics, a KB will often be vented out through the grip and ejection port. If your hand is at the bottom of the grip... Ouch!
But a regular two handed grip offers a little more safety. I got this advice from a former handgun instructor.

 

[Jdude]

The teacup method feels 'right' to me, and so I use it. The double fisted method feels uncomfortable and improper, and probably subconsciously causes me to throw off my shots. I've tried the sideways method once- didn't hit the paper or even the wooden pallet the target was attached to.

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

I have been advised not to do it in case there is a malfunction with your handgun. In automatics, a KB will often be vented out through the grip and ejection port. If your hand is at the bottom of the grip... Ouch!
But a regular two handed grip offers a little more safety. I got this advice from a former handgun instructor.

I was told this by a RO. He told me that the magazine will "shoot out" and that he has seen one bury itself in the wood table below the shooter. I don't know how much of this is true though. Anyone?

 

[UKTN]

So how about some pictures of how others recommend holding the gun if theres a better way.

 

[benEzra]

The problem with cup and saucer is it doesn't give as much lateral (left and right) support as a good 2 handed grip. It was popular in LE circles up to the 1970s when someone realized that you can get better support by getting your hands and fingers higher up on the grip.

It also seems that it wouldn't help as much in recoil control, due to the tendency of the gun and strong hand to lift right out of the weak hand.

 

[Librarian]

So how about some pictures of how others recommend holding the gun if theres a better way.

See this article from Handguns magazine.

 

[phonesysphonesys]

Cup and Saucer Grip. I thought you were talking about all the Hollywood types sticking there pinky finger straight out like the were holding a fine china cup. You were talking about a Weaver Stance position. Had me fooled.
Semper Fi

 

[RP86]

So how about some pictures of how others recommend holding the gun if theres a better way.

I'll do one better, here's a video for you. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363

 

[Bezoar]

Its the most common grip shown in handgun manuals, perview Taurus and smith and wesson. New shooters just do what the manual says... till they spend money on shooting lessons.

 

[benEzra]

Cup and Saucer Grip. I thought you were talking about all the Hollywood types sticking there pinky finger straight out like the were holding a fine china cup. You were talking about a Weaver Stance position. Had me fooled.

Not really a Weaver; with a Weaver, the off hand wraps around the gun's grip from the side, supporting the fingers of the shooting hand, and does the push-pull thing. With cup-and-saucer, the strong hand with the gun is basically resting on the palm of the support hand, without the push-pull dynamic of the Weaver stance. The cup-and-saucer works OK for slowfire target shooting, but your support hand doesn't do much to resist the recoil; it mainly just provides support for aiming.

 

[pax]

Just so everyone knows, the Cornered Cat photo of the cup & saucer hold above is an illustration of how not to hold a gun. More here: http://www.corneredcat.com/Basics/grip.aspx

Don't want anyone thinking I recommended that grip.

pax

 

[230RN]

With a two=handed grip, the tremors of one hand tend to cancel out the tremors of the other hand.

With the cup and saucer, the shooting hand can swivel and rock on the rest hand and the tremors of the shooting hand don't get canceled as much.

That's what I was taught.

 

[busy_squirrel]

I tend to shoot guns with small grips so I use something in between a cup-and-saucer grip and a more contemporary two handed grip. Works for me.

If I plan on a kB, then why am I using that weapon? I don't expect anything to come out of the mag well until I'm reaching for another mag.

 

[Librarian]

If I plan on a kB, then why am I using that weapon? I don't expect anything to come out of the mag well until I'm reaching for another mag

While a KB! is a consideration, steadiness of the grip seems a more important reason to adopt a 2-hand grip above the opening of the mag well.

Nobody expects a KB!, just as nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! (Bring me my Comfy Chair, please.)

 

[MudCamper]

Well for actors that grip makes sense. It would be the most comfortable to hold for the longest period of time. With actors commonly having to rehearse and then do multiple takes, maybe their arms are just getting tired.

 

[goon]

Busy squirrel -
No one expects to have to clear a malfunction too but that doesn't mean its a bad idea to know how to deal with them.
No one wants to get into an accident but I still wear a seatbelt.
I think seven rounds would be enough but I still usually carry a spare magazine.
I don't really expect a KB but they do happen. I'd prefer to do whatever I can to keep my fingers if I do experience one.

 

[Mainsail]

There was a time when the Air Force trained us to hold our pistols that way.