Curio NFA items

[Jared Strand]

Ive found numerous threads about this topic online, but never one that gives the solution and resolution.
So, to put it in the most plain language- what if a person comes into possession of an NFA item, but not through a transfer from a registered owner?
Say, for example (one that I read online) Grandpa died, and only after Grandma died 10 years later did anyone discover a NFA item in the estate. No paperwork found, is the estate able to transfer the item to someone else (family or not?) after it is researched whether it was ever registered?
Or, say I bought a piece of hunting property from the state. On this property is a hunting cabin, and in investigating a gun is found that is an NFA item. Can I have it researched (through an intermediary) and if it is registered, how could I get it transferred to me?
Is there anyone out there who does these kind of research (a lawyer on one of the gun boards willing to send letters to the BATFE for forum members?)

 

[Frank Ettin]

....Is there anyone out there who does these kind of research (a lawyer on one of the gun boards willing to send letters to the BATFE for forum members?)

Welcome to THR. Please understand that as a lawyer with over 30 years experience I can't imagine a lawyer who might be willing to do something like that. Undertaking that would establish a lawyer-client relationship and involve the lawyer assuming some significant, ethical obligations.

...So, to put it in the most plain language- what if a person comes into possession of an NFA item, but not through a transfer from a registered owner?
Say, for example (one that I read online) Grandpa died, and only after Grandma died 10 years later did anyone discover a NFA item in the estate. No paperwork found, is the estate able to transfer the item to someone else (family or not?) after it is researched whether it was ever registered?....

However, this old post and this old post might help. And as outlined in the ATF letter linked to in the first of those posts:

.... As you may be aware, the registration information we maintain is tax information and any disclosure of this information is generally prohibited. We may lawfully provide registration information to the executor of an estate. If there is any question regarding the registration status of the firearms in the estate for which you are assisting the executor, advise the executor to contact the NFA Branch directly and provide proof of his or her appointment as executor.

If there are unregistered NFA firearms in the estate, these firearms are contraband and cannot be registered by the estate. The executor of the estate should contact the local ATF office to arrange for the abandonment of the unregistered firearms....

Bottom line:

• Only an executor duly appoint as such by the probate court having jurisdiction of the probate of a will (or perhaps an administrator of the estate of someone who died without a will if he has been duly appointed by the probate court having jurisdiction of the administration of the estate) will be able to get registration information from the ATF.
  
  
• Only a duly court appointed executor (or perhaps a duly court appointed administrator) may take temporary possession of an NFA item, and only for the purposes of sorting things out.
  
  
• Otherwise, any person who comes into possession of an NFA item in a way other than through a formal transfer from the registered owner in a manner fully compliant with the NFA will need to arrange prompt surrender to the ATF in order to stay out of jail.

 

[Jared Strand]

Makes sense, thanks. There are just so many threads out there that start with "I found this in my grandpa's house" and never post a resolution. Maybe they don't have internet access where they are locked up?

So, if you DO find something you suspect to be NFA (Ithaqua Auto and Burglar or such) and there is no extant "heir" to buy it from, are you out of luck? I've read the "ATF isn't looking to take a family heirloom from Grandma" argument, but if the gun was EVER registered, can't it then be registered to a new owner by paying the transfer stamp (though being in possession of it in the meantime is questionable...) ? Or can only an heir get it through the estate, and transfer it "out of family" by selling? Once that family ceases to have an heir that can inherit, it can't be a legal NFA?

 

[jrmiddleton425]

If any given NFA item was registered prior to May 19th, 1986, it is transferable. If the transfer is by inheritance, it goes on an ATF Form 5, and no tax is paid. This is so because the death of the owner makes a transfer necessary...that is to say, it isn't a taxable "sale."

For items registered prior to May 19th, 1986, they can be sold, per se, on a Form 4 with a $200 transfer tax.

If an item was not registered prior to May 19th, 1986, there is no way to make it legal now, and it has to be turned in to the BATFE.

 

[deadin]

For items registered prior to May 19th, 1986, they can be sold, per se, on a Form 4 with a $200 transfer tax.

Sold by whom? According to what Frank posted it looks like it would have to be the executor or court appointed administrator. (If one still exists, or ever existed.)

 

[Frank Ettin]

....So, if you DO find something you suspect to be NFA (Ithaqua Auto and Burglar or such) and there is no extant "heir" to buy it from, are you out of luck? I've read the "ATF isn't looking to take a family heirloom from Grandma" argument, but if the gun was EVER registered, can't it then be registered to a new owner by paying the transfer stamp (though being in possession of it in the meantime is questionable...) ? Or can only an heir get it through the estate, and transfer it "out of family" by selling? Once that family ceases to have an heir that can inherit, it can't be a legal NFA?

We're not going to go there. We've gone as far as we're going to go here. That might leave a bunch of possible questions unanswered, but those are the kinds of difficult question that aren't going to get answered in an Internet discussion board. Bad answers to these kinds of questions can lead to serious, life altering problems.

If someone needs good answers to these kinds of questions, he needs to hire a qualified lawyer and pay his fee.