Custom 1911 work.

[lurkersince03]

This question is better asked in terms of who had what done. So here's the question: Who has had their 1911's worked on by a custom shop? And how was that experience? How long were the turn around times? What did you have done, and how much did you pay for it?

I'm looking on having my factory Springfield "Loaded" 1911A1 turned up and have some other little things done to it (such as refinishing, front strap checkering, etc). So just looking to see who's done what and go from there.

 

[farscott]

I have had a fair amount of custom work done, both on 1911s and on wheelguns. The 1911 work has ranged from simple tweaks to a working gun to full builds on bare frames and slides. The cost has ranged from $20 to $5500.

On simple things, say checkering a frame, wait times are a few days to a few months depending upon who does the work and their backlog. On full-house builds, wait times have been from six months to three years.

You really need to figure out what work you want done and contact a few smiths for quotes. I would check the LouderThanWords forum to see examples of what top notch work is and to get the contact information for quite a few smiths.

 

[cdrt]

I've had two 1911s worked on by Clark Custom Guns. The first, back in '84, was converted to .38 Special. Old man Clark was around then and did the work. At that time the Heavy Slide conversion ran about $300. I had my .45 Series 70 converted to a Heavy Slide about two years ago. Cost was around $700. The .38 has always performed well. I had to send the .45 back so they could make the grip safety work and due to extractor problems; which I have since learned how to fix on my own.
All in all, they do a good job and turnaround is not too bad. They are at www.clarkcustomguns.com.
For what you're doing, Buddy Chapman in the Dallas area does excellent work. If you're around there, I can give you his email. His prices are reasonable. He built my hardball gun from a SA 1911A1 for $400. The work included a trigger job, stipling the front strap, re-blue, install of Bo-Mar sights, and new barrel and bushing install.

Navy Vet & SWIFT Boat OIC

 

[surjimmy]

I had some work done on my SA by Bryan at BEast custom's. You can find him at randgfirearms. com in Oklahoma. 1 week, crowned the barrel, polish feed ramp, squared hammer hooks, and several others. All being said it's like a new pistol.

 

[Technosavant]

I sent my SA back to SA's Custom Shop for some refinishing. Had I to do it again, I would have had them do another thing or two as well. They're a good place to have work done, but there are other good places as well. They just happen to be relatively nearby, so shipping costs aren't as bad as if I sent it several states over.

 

[trbon8r]

After my experiences having custom pistol work done, I would recommend buying a Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk, or whatever your flavor is. You get a better bang for the buck in my opinion. There is too much crappy work being turned out for my taste, including work from some of the so-called "legends".

I have a slide right now at one of the "legend's" shops that I had to send back because the dovetail for the Novak sights he installed was so horribly miscut, and the fit so bad I couldn't stand it. He has had the slide for 3 months now, and I'm still without a shootable gun since this project began last August. One would think fixing prior screwups would take priority over taking in new guns for work, but I guess not. I won't even get into the front strap checkering miscues on the gun, because it aggravates me too much to think about it. It's not terrible, but certainly not master class work.

No I won't say who the smith is, since beating him up publicly isn't my goal. Just remember caveat emptor. Just my opinion, but stick with a semi-custom.

 

[tegemu]

I had a Bobtail, trigger work and a crowning done by On Target Custom Gun Works www.ontargetcgw.com , very reasonable fast and very good. I currently have a LW Colt Commander XSE at Wild West Guns for a Bobtail, new Beavertail and checkering. I don't know yet what the price will be.

 

[conan]

I have a slide right now at one of the "legend's" shops that I had to send back because the dovetail for the Novak sights he installed was so horribly miscut, and the fit so bad I couldn't stand it. He has had the slide for 3 months now, and I'm still without a shootable gun since this project began last August. One would think fixing prior screwups would take priority over taking in new guns for work, but I guess not.

That is just totally unaceptable. He should have never let it out of his shop to start with, and he should have fixed it as soon as possible. This guy is about money only, and has no pride. He will do others like this.

 

[Bob R]

I picked up a Delta Elite at auction for a good price, so I decided to send it off to a smith (Ted Yost)for a little work.

It cost me about 2500 when all was said and done. I was quoted a turnaround of ~ 1 year. It took a little over 15 months. Part of that was beyond his control. I specified a Schueman AET barrel. Schueman doesn't make 10mm barrels, so Ted had to get a 40 cal and ream it. The first barrel he got would not fit up to his specs, so he ordered another, which took an extra 3 months to get.

I am quite pleased with the results.

 

[ccmdfd]

I've sent 1911's off to both Novak's and Yost's shops. I really can't compare the two, as the type of work done was quite different in both cases.

I was very pleased with the work done by both shops. My turnaround time was about 3 months, and that was for reliabilty and action jobs, along with refinishing.

I'd be happy to use either again.

cc

 

[Harold Mayo]

Since you're doing it on a Springfield "loaded" gun (which really has pretty much everything that used to be considered "custom", anyway), I'd just send it to the Springfield Custom Shop. That way the custom work won't invalidate your warranty, for one thing.

As for going with semi-custom over custom? Why? Unless you just like their offerings. I think that having a gun built totally to YOUR specs rather than those of someone else is a great proposition. The guys working at the semi-custom places are mostly technicians, not gunsmiths. I wouldn't trade my full-house 1911 that Ned Christiansen did for me back before his waiting periods were measured in years and that I paid a total of $1800 for (including parts) a $3000 Wilson for anything. The quality of workmanship is above reproach. As always, of course, your mileage may vary. For me, I won't touch a semi-custom unless it's at semi-custom prices. The Rock Rivers are the best semi-custom going right now, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[trbon8r]

I often hear the argument in favor of a full custom job because you can get it any way you want. I called Les Baer yesterday and asked about a custom order for a Premier II I'm thinking about. They said "yes" to every single one of my requests to modify the basic Premier II into what I want. Single sided safety, fixed night sights, delete front cocking serrations. I'm sure if I'd wanted the gun hard chromed or whatever, they could have done that too. In other words the semi-custom houses are a lot more "custom" than many people think. The Premier II can be had with a street price of around $1400 from Sporting Arms or some of the other online sellers. It's a great deal in my opinion. I wouldn't pay $3000 for a Wilson either.

The good thing about the Baer is that if you do have a problem, send it back and they will make it right. Do you think the "custom" smith is going to give you a new frame or slide, and admit that he screwed up your gun you sent him? I doubt it. You will probably get the old "that's the way it is".

 

[BrennanKG]

That's really good to hear about Les Baer.
I didn't know that. I had assumed (my mistake, I know) they were more like Ed Brown, a company generally hesitant to change stuff on their models.



B.

 

[45auto]

I "almost" agree on calling Baer, but try calling him and asking for an EB or CMC grip safety and installing Heine sights...with the Heine sight cut!

There's a big difference in feel and function between an EB style beavertail and the Baer, which is a S&A type. Same for the Heine sight.

 

[kir_kenix]

my father had a SA reworked at cylinder and slide, which is just 30 miles down the road from us here. it is a simply beautiful and functionable gun. great trigger job, checkering, and safety. also, they provided some cleaning materials that are fantastic. even though i have never had anything worked on by these guys, i would never hesitate to use them. oh, and i think the gun took about 6 months, but i couldnt be sure.

 

[Tom Fury]

Custom Work

Rule #1 Never let anybody but the best people work on your guns.

Someone above said it; You have to figure out what you want and then call around for prices and Turn around times.

That said, I find prices rarely humonguously different (I usually send stuff out to KIngs, EGW, Novak and Robar), but turn around times do vary; Summer slows down as the competition circuit heats up, and Christmas...well, forget it.

Some Smiths after they get to know you seem to try a little harder (Kudos to Kings, and Wayne Novak answers his own phone. The guys at EGW have always had time to talk thru what I wanted to do and have been patient in explaining why or why not. C&S did something experimental for me once just because they wondered if it would work (it did),

Wayne Novak doesn't like to be asked to put in Ashley 24/7 sights. He'll put his in and usually turn just that job around in a week.

Not all Gunsmiths are curmudgeons, though the sharper your approach is (I mean informed and thought thru) the better you both will feel about the transaction. They don't dicker about their prices; instead of discounts, they do little extras sometimes.

If you've been on this site for 5 minutes, you know how hot we all are for mods beyond stock either from the factory or somewhere else. Gunsmiths are busy, and they guard their time. They seem to appreciate informed customers; if they perceive you have made an effort to become one, they seem to feel comfortable giving a little more. All of us hate to have our time wasted. Yes, they screw up sometimes (only once for me, when a well known Teflon finish didn't "take"), but I think in the main, they do incredible stuff; Pick something simple, like a triggerjob with a Beavertail, and let one prove it to you.

I agree about the fact that some of those guys who have proprietary parts can be quite reluctant to change their package or use someone elses, but wouldn't you be trying to sell your own stuff? Having said that, I have preferences that don't always come out of one shop. Then I go to EGW.

A Brownells' catalogue is a good place to start. Educating ourselves about parts and custom work is not about avoiding a bad time with a gunsmith; its' about helping a good one get what you want out of the work.

I have mentioned Gunsmiths I have had good experience with; There are a raft of others (new ones all the time) of whom I have not had the privilege yet, and some (Heinie) I just can't afford (yet).

When I worked in a shop, I was asked all the time if a Wilson Combat was worth the money over say, a Springfield Loaded, or a Kimber Custom.

I still say craftsmanship is worth every penny you pay for it.

Terry Tussey is a star.

I'm sure others have other opinions; These are mine, based on my experience.

Cheers, TF

 

[silversport]

Several pistols made perfect by Teddy Jacobson...he is semi-retired now but each one sweet...VERY fair pricing, about 6-8 weeks turnaround and ALWAYS There to answer any questions...if you don't like hearing it how he sees it, go somewhere else...me, I prefer to hear his frank talk and advice...
SIG GSR Revolution STX, Kimber Custom II, Smith & Wesson 642-2 Centennial, Seecamp LWS .32ACP, Project Street Gun I Springfield Mil-Spec Stainless...I trust my life to them.
Bill
Bill

 

[Rob96]

My Springfield Mil-Spec is at the Custom Shop right now for a skeleton hammer, solid long aluminum trigger, 4.5#trigger job, and beavertail grip safety.

 

[PT-Partners]

I have to qualify what I am saying from lessons learned by my dumb @$$ mistakes and also my clients not so good experience.

Much of what has been said above is to be taken and paid attention to as the above posters have been there an learned the hard way.

Just also keep something in mind and this is with me also as I am as guilty as the rest. Many, many of the gun issues on forums are actually operator issues but you do not hear that part. Being in retail I hear how "screwed up" this or that was and in reality operator issue.

I retail the higher end 1911's, the top three shops, and have been dealing with the one man shops for many years. I have learned from making many "price" choices over "value" choices that "best price" in not the driving factor in a well made product, craftsmans work, or good value.

Again, what I say is from me making @$$ mistakes and watching countless others do the same.

Search for best value not best price. (part of your cost, the search)

Now qualify it with this, production pieces are good and work within what they were designed for. Basic function. Productions guns are from companies that produce 30,000 to 50,000 guns a year so there is very, very, little time spent on them. Check the ATF website for quantity produced.

If you want anything else will cost you. Everything has a cost because if there is a discount your undying gratitude has nothing to do with it.

Cost is not only money, cost is actual time to build, length of waiting list to get to your project, experience, skill, research, and a few other intangibles. such as trust, reputation and integrity.

Quality of components; time invested in the building of the product; skill level of the craftsman; reputation of the shop; and a few other things.

There are components made to standard specs, then there are components made to the highest level of quality. Which cost more. What is the best value. Production guns make good starting points and work well but what does the craftsman you trust say. I am certainly not going to invest $3K worth of skill in a Rock Island, (not to be confused with Rock River). Caspian for example makes many levels of frame. Some average and some higher quality.

Others say you are paying for a name, so what. The name and reputation is earned, not given. What till you resell the no name or multiple work by various maker or craftsman piece.

Now factor that on skill level of craftsman, One making $5 will not do the job of one making $50 an hour. A comparison is a doctor who just got his license and was at the bottom of the class, then a doctor who graduated top of his class with years of experience. Who do you want for your brain surgery. Your choice. (someone mentioned to me on another forum doctors get paid the same when on call so this was a poor analogy, it fits for comparison)

The top three i.e. Wilson, Brown,and Baer only use their parts for reasons such as proprietary reasons, trust, follow up service (for example Wilson will service 2nd and 3 owner guns; You have to trust the parts you use if the gun is 20 years old and then how do you know is some other lugwrench gunsmith has done something to it).

If you do not like what each of the name brand shops use then your choice is go to a one man shop. Many of them will not work or use parts they do not trust.

Some costs are variable as well as intangible in nature.

Alex Hamilton, who writes for Handgunner stated words to the effect and I should have the context correct, "to be a good successful gunsmith you have to be a good businessman also."

So keep in mind will the craftsman working on your treasure be in business tommorrow or two or however many years from now when your "treasure" is done.

If there is a waiting list, there is a reason.

Remember what I mentioned about a "discount" there is always a reason.

Just some thoughts from both the retail and consumer perspective.