CVA Traditions Kentucky Rifle / Jukar Spain questions

[wsryno]

Purchased what I believe is a 45 cal CVA Traditions Kentucky rifle, price was too low to pass up. It appears to be built from a kit, the assembly seems to be pretty good at least as good as I could have done. And it appears unfired.

I checked to make sure it was not loaded, then I fired just a cap down toward the ground at a leaf to make sure there were no obstructions in the primer feed system. Leaf should move, but it didn't. So I started poking around and discovered that the powder drum appears to have no hole that would allow primer flash to get to the slot at the bottom of the barrel (slot shown in the pic). The inside of the cleanout drum is perfectly sealed.

So my questions are,
(1) Am I correct that the powder drum should have a hole or slot that lines-up with the slot at the bottom of the barrel?
(2) Are replacement powder drums available, and from where, or can I just cut a slot in the existing powder drum with a thin blade hacksaw?

Thanks, this is my first blackpowder rifle and I can't seem to find these answers anywhere.

 

[Crawdad1]

I don't know what you mean by filing a "slot." The drum is suppose to have a hole through it that transfers the flame from the priming cap to the main charge. I don't know from looking at just 2 pictures but something doesn't seem right about this rifle. I've never seen a drum like that either.

 

[frontiergander]

run a snug patch down the barrel and go back and forth fast, hear any hissing?

 

[wsryno]

Frontiergander, I tried that, no hissing. I poured a bit of soapy water down the barrel and the only place it ran out was around the mating surface between the powder drum and barrel, and powder drum and nipple. I highlighted the areas in red below. I would expect it should run out the nipple.

Crawdad, I meant cutting a slot in the powder drum, which would be the same thing as drilling a hole in it. The slot to transfer the priming flame from the cap to the main charge is in the barrel but there is no hole in the powder drum.

I took a pic showing the powder drum installed on the barrel, the nipple is a replacement as the one that was on the gun was crowned. It looks like other powder drums I've seen, so I'm not sure why it doesn't look right to you. The pliers marks on the powder drum were my doing. The flats on the powder drum are rounded so there was no other way to get it out IMO besides vice grips.

 

[frontiergander]

typical for it to leak there as its meant to seal up gasses and not water.

When it was off, could you put a light in that drum hole area and see it through the barrel?

 

[frontiergander]

this what your breech plug/bolster looks like,

 

[wsryno]

typical for it to leak there as its meant to seal up gasses and not water.

When it was off, could you put a light in that drum hole area and see it through the barrel?

Yes, did that yesterday, put a light by the slot (breech end with powder drum removed) and light shows at muzzle.

 

[Crawdad1]

Now that pic clears it up better. A slot, a hole, I get it.

 

[frontiergander]

sounds like the bolster just isnt right. Order a new one,
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=5800

 

[wsryno]

sounds like the bolster just isnt right. Order a new one,
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=5800

Frontiergander, that's what I thought, that the powder drum was not right. You called it a bolster, we're talking about the same thing right, the part that the nipple screws into, and then those two get screwed into the breech plug?

I can't tell if the breech plug you're showing is exactly like mine. When I have the powder drum removed and look into the hole it screws into, I can't really see the "parting line" where the breech plug meets the barrel. It looks solid. But then, it must be a tight fit.

The powder drum you have screwed into the breech plug (first pic) doesn't look at all like my powder drum. But the one from your link at Dixie sure does.

I read somewhere (can't remember the source) that the breech plug on these barrels, I think it was specifically the Jukar barrels supplied with the CVA Traditions kit, should not be removed. Does this sound correct? I would think it would be a bear to remove without heat/quench cycles and I don't know if that's safe for the breech end of a barrel.

So many questions.

 

[Elkins45]

Can you show us a picture or the bottom end of the drum? You are correct that it needs to have a hole for the flash to meet the powder. Unless the nipple is plugged, water should pour out the nipple when poured down the muzzle.

Don't try to remove the breech plug. If your drum isn't drilled you could replace it 100 times and still never get the gun to fire. It sounds like your drum missed a step in the manufacturing process and the QC inspector missed it.

 

[wsryno]

Can you show us a picture or the bottom end of the drum? You are correct that it needs to have a hole for the flash to meet the powder. Unless the nipple is plugged, water should pour out the nipple when poured down the muzzle.

Don't try to remove the breech plug. If your drum isn't drilled you could replace it 100 times and still never get the gun to fire. It sounds like your drum missed a step in the manufacturing process and the QC inspector missed it.

The only holes in the drum are for the cleanout screw and nipple. That's it. I've looked at it under every light, poured water in it to see if it ran out, blew air through it, there's just no hole in it. I've ordered a replacement and will report on the results.

Thanks,

 

[zimmerstutzen]

1. That is an early gun. I think all the Tradition's Kentucky rifles were made by Ardessa, not Juker.

2. That looks like somebody tried to replace the drum and didn't know what they were doing. The drum should indeed have a hole from the barrel into the flash channel, OR, in some cases the threaded end of the drum should stop just inside the barrel wall.

I have heard that some CVA drums went clear through to the barrel wall to the opposite side. First I have seen it in your picture. (I know in the hooked breech guns it is that way).

The fact that water leaks so easily through indicates the threads are loose and no fouling from gases had sealed the threads.

The question becomes whether some one rethreaded the drum hole and whether a factory replacement (or which thread replacement) will fit.

Before ordering, I would check to see what threads are in the hole, SAE or metric and what size.

 

[Skinny 1950]

I have the same kit rifle but have never taken the drum out to see what it looks like.
Here are some pictures of the rifle as a kit, the box shows a flinter but it is a cap lock.
Good luck getting it going, they are an accurate rifle but ignition can be a problem. I had to use Remington 40% hotter caps to get mine shooting reliably.

 

[wsryno]

Skinny150, it's very interesting to see it in the original box, as far as I can tell that's my rifle exactly. Thanks for the info on ignition. Is your barrel stamped stamped the same as mine?
BLACK POWDER ONLY
JUKAR 000000 SPAIN

Zimmerstutzen, I went to the Ardesa web site and they still offer this kit. From the schematic drawing it looks the same. The instructions state "Do not remove the bolster from the barrel". Wish I knew why they say this. It's not a complicated part.

Since my rifle appears to have never been fired, I suspect your right, it's because the bolster was missing the flash hole straight from the factory. Somebody tried to remove the bolster and rounded the flats so it couldn't be removed, then they gave up on it. Those beautiful tool marks on the bolster are my doing, I had to use a vice grips to get it off. I figured, since it won't fire anyway, what's the harm in some tool marks on it?

I'm anxious for the new bolster to arrive, I couldn't measure the threads so I just hope it's the right one.

If it's not the right one, I might just drill a hole in the existing bolster that matches up with the flash hole in the breech plug. Does this sound like a bad idea, and if so, why? Thanks.

 

[Skinny 1950]

Mine has the same markings, I bought it a couple of years ago as a kit...I think it was made in the '70s. It sat around for years un-built and it took a couple of weeks to fit it all together. The hardest part was getting the two parts of the stock squared up so there were no gaps around the brass spacer.
I am guessing that they "sweated" the drum into the barrel by heating the barrel end to maybe 400 degrees so that it would be very tight when cooled. That would make removal difficult and could damage the threads. It looks like the pressure from the chamber is applied at a right angle to the drum which would prevent the drum from blowing out, so if you have to re-use the old drum as long as the threads are good it should be safe to shoot. Just in case of failure make sure no one is next to you when testing it out.