Should a guy find a CVA Wolf on closeout for next to nothing, and should he find in his pile of moulds a Lee REAL and a TC Maxiball mould, what might he expect to see with real black and these bullets. Using a wad over powder I imagine. Recommendations? He's not averse to using substitutes and has a Black horn friendly breech plug on the way. "Asking for a friend" as I am a died in the wool sidelock traditionalist. (But getting on in years and softening up)
CVA WHAT IF?
- Thread starter PapaG
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brewer12345
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Assuming it is 50 cal, start at 80 grains FFG or similar, wad over the powder. work your way up. The Lee is a fine bullet, but I have found that the maxi ball shoots best in my sidelocks. I would try both. Hope you are recoil tolerant.
Jackrabbit1957
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I would start with 55 grains and work up 5 grains at a time until the accuracy load is found, why beat yourself up with recoil if you don't have to.
friend of mine runs 100-150gr pyrodex charges thru his, I don't find it particularly pleasant to shoot even as heavy as they are, but it shoots them fine and accurately. Hes used quite a few different bullets, including the Maxis, but nothing with real blackpowder....cant get it here.
Loyalist Dave
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ZOIKERS !
Yes it's not uncommon for folks to....over compensate....for a perceived lack of power from BP rifles.
A .45-70 cartridge, loaded with the old black powder specs, is 70 grains of powder, launching a 405 grain bullet..albeit a .458 diameter. This was known to hammer buffalo at 100 yards, and to go through even very large whitetails out to 200 yards, although the normal shooting distances were under 100 yards for deer, elk and moose.
No reason to expect that a .517 bullet from the Lee R.E.A.L. mold, either 250gr or 320gr needs 50% more powder than the old .45-70 cartridge, let alone more than 2X the powder, to get the job done in the CVA Wolf.
As mentioned start with something around 50-55 grains and work up.... and get the most accurate load developed. They have a 1:28 twist rate, but since you're using REALs and ensuring the rifling is engaged upon loading, I agree with the others that it should do well for you.
LD
Jackrabbit1957
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At those kind of loads you get diminished returns, no real gains in velocity or power just getting the bejeses beat outta you. I used to advertise in Knight's black powder magazine and it always amazed me as to how shoving 3 Pyrodex pellets in a 24 inch barrel was supposed give you the ability to knock over anything on the planet. Plus these articles were written by "experts". LD has it pegged, shooting a REAL bullet cast from pure lead over 60 to 70 grains of powder will most likely blow plum through a deer at a 100 yards or more. So why have that expensive 3 rd pellet burning down range when 1 and a half will get the job done. The attitude that Knight's magazine had about inline muzzleloaders really turned me off to the idea. There never was an article that I saw about load development or even shooting with loose powder.
I run loose 777 powder in my Traditions, and have run charges from 60-85gr by weight. There is a noticeable velocity increase, but the added recoil (my guns something like 6.5lbs) and loss in accuracy over about 70gr is noticable as well.
My buddies Wolf has a 4" shorter barrel than my gun, and actually shoots the 3 pellet load into 1-1.5" at 100, but weve never chronographed his gun.
I didnt think about it but I have another buddies Optima, same gun as the Wolf, in the garage right now. He wanted some sights added.....anyway he shoots the 3 pellet load as well, and ive been putting of zeroing his gun since october.....
My buddies Wolf has a 4" shorter barrel than my gun, and actually shoots the 3 pellet load into 1-1.5" at 100, but weve never chronographed his gun.
I didnt think about it but I have another buddies Optima, same gun as the Wolf, in the garage right now. He wanted some sights added.....anyway he shoots the 3 pellet load as well, and ive been putting of zeroing his gun since october.....
Gus Chiggins
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How about these? 80-90 gr of 2F? I got these vintage TC .50 maxi balls with some other accessories. 460 gr. I cleaned the lube off one for photo op. It's beside a .495 ball for comparison. I'm using it for a paperweight now.
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Loyalist Dave
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With those you definitely need to do a test firing from a 1:28 barrel, like the CVA Wolf. The question will be the obturation. You need enough lead displaced at the base, to engage the grooves, AND to stay engaged as the bullet accelerates forward vs. the 460 grains of lead and the inertia that brings. The TC bullets are meant for 1:48 twist barrels of the depth of TC barrel rifling. I have no idea how that stacks up against CVA rifling in the Wolf..., BUT since CVA makes plastic skirted bullets for its inlines, AND because sabots are also popular for inlines and use plastic, I'd guess that the CVA grooves are a tad more shallow than factory Thompson Center barrels. That shallow rifling may not like the TC product.
That's why the Lee brand REAL bullets have done so well in a variety of different brands of rifles. The name stands for Rifling Engraved At Loading, so their .50 caliber bullet has the band closest to the nose sized .517, and when loaded, the band is swaged into the barrel lands and grooves, thus the issue of obturation of the bullet is done manually when loading. IF the rifling grooves are deep, the shooter can put a wad between the bullet and the powder to complete the seal to prevent gases from coming around the bullet as it travels down the barrel. No worries about obturation With other bullets the shooter must rely on the bullet being pure lead and the inertia of the bullet at firing to force the bullet base to deform into the rifling grooves. IF the base doesn't seal and a wad is used, that wad will cushion the force against the base and reduce or eliminate obturation. IF the rifling is shallow, then the obturation by displacement at firing may not be enough to grip the bullet well and impart the spin, and the bullet may break free of the rifling.
OR they may work just fine. You don't really know until you try.
LD
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