Greetings,
I recently received a new .45 ACP Commander and thought I would share. The pistol's specs are as follows:
1. Built by Cylinder & Slide
2. Stainless steel Caspian cast frame and bar stock slide, fit and lapped
3. Bar-Sto barrel throated and polished for hollowpoints
4. Smith & Alexander magwell
5. Ahrends rosewood grips, pin covered, full checkering, fit to magwell
6. Ed Brown beavertail grip safety with memory bump
7. Novak lo-mount rear sight w/white dots: staked in place
8. C&S dovetailed front sight w/white dot; fully contoured
9. Three-hole custom-milled trigger w/overtravel screw; 4-pound trigger pull;
10. Light carry beveling, which eliminates all sharp edges but keeps classic profile
11. Satin polish (400 grit) entire gun
12. Wolff springs
13. C&S heavy-duty tactical hammer, sear, extractor, firing pin, firing pin stop, pins, disconnector, etc.
14. Slide stop pin shortened and countersunk into frame for no-snag profile
15. Full-length guide rod
16. Ambi tactical safety
The gun was ordered with no checkering or serrations, and it looks great! While the slide to frame fit is tight, I have no difficulty racking the slide without the serrations. The grips also have sufficiently sharp checkering that the lack of fronstrap and mainspring housing checkering does not prevent me from getting a solid grip on the gun.
**************************
Here is the promised range report: This gun...
SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have tried 5 different brands of magazines, 9 different factory loads, 2 versions of reloads, 4 different shooters and after over 1000 rounds and 3 cleanings it continues to fail to feed, fail to eject, ejects cases back into the shooter's forehead, stovepipes, etc.
I need time to do a further cleaning and think about these problems, but for now I am LESS THAN PLEASED!
************************
Well I have thoroughly cleaned the gun for the 4th time and can find no specifice indications of the reason(s) for these malfunctions. At first I though it was an ammo problem, as I was using my 230 gr hard cast lead reloads. These loads have been shot in many 1911s to the tune of over 100,000 loaded, but, hey, maybe this gun just didn't like them. Switching to other reloads of mine, and several jacketed defense rounds did not relieve the problem. Then I thought maybe the gun is just too dirty to function. But each time I cleaned it, the following function was no better. All the while this is going on I was changing from Wilson to Les Baer to McCormick magazines (7 and 8 rounds) but with no indication that this made matters better or worse. Then I started to ask other experienced shooters to try these various mag/ammo configurations, and they too had the same problems.
As this is a relatively tight fit Stainless Steel gun, though not nearly as tight as any of my Les Baer (which have NEVER malfunctioned), I was very careful to thoroughly lube the gun to prevent any chance of galling. No galling appears to have taken place upon inspection.
I will take the gun back to the range soon to run another 1000 rounds through it, and see if the problem disappears. If not, then it will go back to C&S.
***************************
Well another 1000+ rounds later I think I have this pistol figured out.
I started the day with several new Wilson 8 round magazines and a Cartridge Case Gauge to check all my rounds (230 Gr. Hard cast ball). I discarded some reloads in that the outside of the case head had nicks from the extractor from prior firings. The guns seemd to finally come alive and function well. I had almost no malfunctions.
Next I tried loading some factory defense rounds and they functioned fine to, UNTIL the last round in the magazine. Without fail, the last round would either hit the inside roof of the barrel hood and stop, or it would create its own stovepipe. After many rounds of various factory defense ammo, and many different brands of magazines, I could not get this last-round problem to go away.
Finally I picked up an unidentifiable magazine I had lying around and tried it. It functioned perfectly for dozens of firings! Now all I need to do is find out what brand of magazine it is!!!
**************************
Well after another day at the range using 3 different brands of both 7 & 8 round magazines, 5 variations of reloaded & factory ammo, 4 different recoil spring weights, FLGR and No FLGR, I give up. The gun is just not right.
While it feeds somewhat better than it did when I first started shooting it, I still have far too many mid-magazine FTFs, and a 90% rate of FTF on the last round.
I will contacted C&S to see if they would like a chance at making it work properly. In speeking with Ralph at C&S he immediately agreed that the gun should be sent to him for repair. He also indicated that the mid-magazine FTFs were a minor, though annoying, problem, but could be easily rectified by further working of the interior of the chamber. The last live round stovepipe problem was something he knew about, but was surprised to hear about on a gun he had built. His explanation was that the gun itself is moving rearward as the last round is trying to properly exit the feed lips of the magazine, and as such, is being caught and thrown vertically (almost) out of the ejection port. He explained it a bit better than I just did, but it made perfect sense. He did not offer a quick solution, but was surprised that I was experiencing this problem on a relatively heavy (Stainless) gun. This makes sense, from a physics standpoint, too.
Anyway, he will have the gun soon and hopefully these 2 problems will soon be corrected.
I'll keep everyone posted...
***********************
After almost 6 weeks, the gun was returned with the following work having been done to correct the FTF and FTE problems:
Lower and Bevel Ejection Port
Throat and Polish Barrel
Adjust Ejector Angle
Use C&S Mags
The Cost associated with these repairs was:
$28.50 C&S Ammo & Range Time
$48.90 Ship to C&S
$48.90 Ship from C&S
$99.75 C&S Tactical Magazines (5)
$15.78 20# Recoil Springs (2)
$241.83 Total
After receiving the “repaired†gun, I spent only a very short time at the range testing it. The exact same FTF and FTE problems persisted. When I again contacted C&S and told them of this occurrence, they said that the solution to the pistol’s problem was unknown to them.
***?! I just spend over $240.00, and 6 weeks time without the gun, to now have them say that they knew the problems had not been corrected! This was BULLSH*T!
*****************
With no obvious hope of C&S making the gun function properly, I asked Victor Tibbets of Tibbets Classic Customs http://www.classichandguns.com if he could look at this gun sometime in the future and try to fix it. I hesitated in asking him because ‘smiths can sometimes be reluctant to work on other ’smiths guns. He suggested that I send it to him and that he would look at it upon receipt. After receiving the gun, he notified me that while he typically test fires guns with known problems before attempting to fix them, he was not going to waste any time test firing this gun as it had too many visible problems to begin with. He simply started to rebuild it. His discoveries (and corrections) to the causes of the FTF and FTE are as follows:
Chamber is too tight; Reamed to proper size
Extractor has zero Tension: Adjust
Case rebate was crashing into the nose of the extractor: Cut for clearance
Ejector nose too heavily modified: Replace
Standard length barrel link with elongated hole: Replace with Wilson
Trigger had disconnector “clickâ€: Adjust
Breach face too narrow: Modify to proper width
Slide and Frame Galled: Adjust and Hard Chrome
Slide Stop’s slide engagement portion too short: Replace with Wilson
Wrong weight Mainspring: Install 23lb.
While Victor was correcting these problems I studied some pics I had of the gun, and then asked him if he could attend to the following cosmetic errors:
1. The recessed slide stop pin hole has tool marks from chattering/dull tool.
2. The rounded end of the slide stop pin has a rough finish.
3. The underside of the slide stop pin is gouging the left side of the frame.
4. The hammer's serrations are flattened/dull where they meet the edge of the hammer.
5. The sides of the trigger are rough/scratched.
6. The slide's slide stop notch is peening at the rear edge.
7. The underside of the left side thumb safety is gouging the frame.
8. The finish texture of the left and right side thumb safeties is rougher than the rest of the gun's components.
9. The "stake" mark on the top of the slide for "holding" the rear sight is unsightly.
10. The beavertail safety's fit to the frame is poor.
11. The hammer serrations have embedded themselves in the beavertail safety cutout.
12. The grooves on the beavertail safety's raised pad look out of place on a "bald" gun.
13. The checkering on the slide stop would look better if it were serrations.
All of these areas were corrected, and in addition I requested that he also cut his trademark muzzle crown into the barrel, and Hard Chrome the gun. Victor returned the pistol exactly six weeks after he received it, and with all the above-mentioned work completed.
The charges associated with this work were:
$47.00 Shipping To Tibbets Classic Customs
$30.00 Test ammo
$549.00 Total (parts, labor, refinish, and shipping)
$616.00 Total
Thus, the total “Repair†cost of this Commander came to $857.83 ($241.83 + $616.00)
The gun as it exists today is absolutely fabulous! The work Victor performed has eliminated all FTF and FTE issues. There has not been a single malfunction in any of the 1800 rounds I have run through this gun in the last few days.
It simply doesn’t get any better than this.
So remember boys and girls, “Just say NO, to Cylinder & Slide.€
ktmhk53
I recently received a new .45 ACP Commander and thought I would share. The pistol's specs are as follows:
1. Built by Cylinder & Slide
2. Stainless steel Caspian cast frame and bar stock slide, fit and lapped
3. Bar-Sto barrel throated and polished for hollowpoints
4. Smith & Alexander magwell
5. Ahrends rosewood grips, pin covered, full checkering, fit to magwell
6. Ed Brown beavertail grip safety with memory bump
7. Novak lo-mount rear sight w/white dots: staked in place
8. C&S dovetailed front sight w/white dot; fully contoured
9. Three-hole custom-milled trigger w/overtravel screw; 4-pound trigger pull;
10. Light carry beveling, which eliminates all sharp edges but keeps classic profile
11. Satin polish (400 grit) entire gun
12. Wolff springs
13. C&S heavy-duty tactical hammer, sear, extractor, firing pin, firing pin stop, pins, disconnector, etc.
14. Slide stop pin shortened and countersunk into frame for no-snag profile
15. Full-length guide rod
16. Ambi tactical safety
The gun was ordered with no checkering or serrations, and it looks great! While the slide to frame fit is tight, I have no difficulty racking the slide without the serrations. The grips also have sufficiently sharp checkering that the lack of fronstrap and mainspring housing checkering does not prevent me from getting a solid grip on the gun.
**************************
Here is the promised range report: This gun...
SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have tried 5 different brands of magazines, 9 different factory loads, 2 versions of reloads, 4 different shooters and after over 1000 rounds and 3 cleanings it continues to fail to feed, fail to eject, ejects cases back into the shooter's forehead, stovepipes, etc.
I need time to do a further cleaning and think about these problems, but for now I am LESS THAN PLEASED!
************************
Well I have thoroughly cleaned the gun for the 4th time and can find no specifice indications of the reason(s) for these malfunctions. At first I though it was an ammo problem, as I was using my 230 gr hard cast lead reloads. These loads have been shot in many 1911s to the tune of over 100,000 loaded, but, hey, maybe this gun just didn't like them. Switching to other reloads of mine, and several jacketed defense rounds did not relieve the problem. Then I thought maybe the gun is just too dirty to function. But each time I cleaned it, the following function was no better. All the while this is going on I was changing from Wilson to Les Baer to McCormick magazines (7 and 8 rounds) but with no indication that this made matters better or worse. Then I started to ask other experienced shooters to try these various mag/ammo configurations, and they too had the same problems.
As this is a relatively tight fit Stainless Steel gun, though not nearly as tight as any of my Les Baer (which have NEVER malfunctioned), I was very careful to thoroughly lube the gun to prevent any chance of galling. No galling appears to have taken place upon inspection.
I will take the gun back to the range soon to run another 1000 rounds through it, and see if the problem disappears. If not, then it will go back to C&S.
***************************
Well another 1000+ rounds later I think I have this pistol figured out.
I started the day with several new Wilson 8 round magazines and a Cartridge Case Gauge to check all my rounds (230 Gr. Hard cast ball). I discarded some reloads in that the outside of the case head had nicks from the extractor from prior firings. The guns seemd to finally come alive and function well. I had almost no malfunctions.
Next I tried loading some factory defense rounds and they functioned fine to, UNTIL the last round in the magazine. Without fail, the last round would either hit the inside roof of the barrel hood and stop, or it would create its own stovepipe. After many rounds of various factory defense ammo, and many different brands of magazines, I could not get this last-round problem to go away.
Finally I picked up an unidentifiable magazine I had lying around and tried it. It functioned perfectly for dozens of firings! Now all I need to do is find out what brand of magazine it is!!!
**************************
Well after another day at the range using 3 different brands of both 7 & 8 round magazines, 5 variations of reloaded & factory ammo, 4 different recoil spring weights, FLGR and No FLGR, I give up. The gun is just not right.
While it feeds somewhat better than it did when I first started shooting it, I still have far too many mid-magazine FTFs, and a 90% rate of FTF on the last round.
I will contacted C&S to see if they would like a chance at making it work properly. In speeking with Ralph at C&S he immediately agreed that the gun should be sent to him for repair. He also indicated that the mid-magazine FTFs were a minor, though annoying, problem, but could be easily rectified by further working of the interior of the chamber. The last live round stovepipe problem was something he knew about, but was surprised to hear about on a gun he had built. His explanation was that the gun itself is moving rearward as the last round is trying to properly exit the feed lips of the magazine, and as such, is being caught and thrown vertically (almost) out of the ejection port. He explained it a bit better than I just did, but it made perfect sense. He did not offer a quick solution, but was surprised that I was experiencing this problem on a relatively heavy (Stainless) gun. This makes sense, from a physics standpoint, too.
Anyway, he will have the gun soon and hopefully these 2 problems will soon be corrected.
I'll keep everyone posted...
***********************
After almost 6 weeks, the gun was returned with the following work having been done to correct the FTF and FTE problems:
Lower and Bevel Ejection Port
Throat and Polish Barrel
Adjust Ejector Angle
Use C&S Mags
The Cost associated with these repairs was:
$28.50 C&S Ammo & Range Time
$48.90 Ship to C&S
$48.90 Ship from C&S
$99.75 C&S Tactical Magazines (5)
$15.78 20# Recoil Springs (2)
$241.83 Total
After receiving the “repaired†gun, I spent only a very short time at the range testing it. The exact same FTF and FTE problems persisted. When I again contacted C&S and told them of this occurrence, they said that the solution to the pistol’s problem was unknown to them.
***?! I just spend over $240.00, and 6 weeks time without the gun, to now have them say that they knew the problems had not been corrected! This was BULLSH*T!
*****************
With no obvious hope of C&S making the gun function properly, I asked Victor Tibbets of Tibbets Classic Customs http://www.classichandguns.com if he could look at this gun sometime in the future and try to fix it. I hesitated in asking him because ‘smiths can sometimes be reluctant to work on other ’smiths guns. He suggested that I send it to him and that he would look at it upon receipt. After receiving the gun, he notified me that while he typically test fires guns with known problems before attempting to fix them, he was not going to waste any time test firing this gun as it had too many visible problems to begin with. He simply started to rebuild it. His discoveries (and corrections) to the causes of the FTF and FTE are as follows:
Chamber is too tight; Reamed to proper size
Extractor has zero Tension: Adjust
Case rebate was crashing into the nose of the extractor: Cut for clearance
Ejector nose too heavily modified: Replace
Standard length barrel link with elongated hole: Replace with Wilson
Trigger had disconnector “clickâ€: Adjust
Breach face too narrow: Modify to proper width
Slide and Frame Galled: Adjust and Hard Chrome
Slide Stop’s slide engagement portion too short: Replace with Wilson
Wrong weight Mainspring: Install 23lb.
While Victor was correcting these problems I studied some pics I had of the gun, and then asked him if he could attend to the following cosmetic errors:
1. The recessed slide stop pin hole has tool marks from chattering/dull tool.
2. The rounded end of the slide stop pin has a rough finish.
3. The underside of the slide stop pin is gouging the left side of the frame.
4. The hammer's serrations are flattened/dull where they meet the edge of the hammer.
5. The sides of the trigger are rough/scratched.
6. The slide's slide stop notch is peening at the rear edge.
7. The underside of the left side thumb safety is gouging the frame.
8. The finish texture of the left and right side thumb safeties is rougher than the rest of the gun's components.
9. The "stake" mark on the top of the slide for "holding" the rear sight is unsightly.
10. The beavertail safety's fit to the frame is poor.
11. The hammer serrations have embedded themselves in the beavertail safety cutout.
12. The grooves on the beavertail safety's raised pad look out of place on a "bald" gun.
13. The checkering on the slide stop would look better if it were serrations.
All of these areas were corrected, and in addition I requested that he also cut his trademark muzzle crown into the barrel, and Hard Chrome the gun. Victor returned the pistol exactly six weeks after he received it, and with all the above-mentioned work completed.
The charges associated with this work were:
$47.00 Shipping To Tibbets Classic Customs
$30.00 Test ammo
$549.00 Total (parts, labor, refinish, and shipping)
$616.00 Total
Thus, the total “Repair†cost of this Commander came to $857.83 ($241.83 + $616.00)
The gun as it exists today is absolutely fabulous! The work Victor performed has eliminated all FTF and FTE issues. There has not been a single malfunction in any of the 1800 rounds I have run through this gun in the last few days.
It simply doesn’t get any better than this.
So remember boys and girls, “Just say NO, to Cylinder & Slide.€
ktmhk53
