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CZ 527 Carbine - .223 or 7.62 X 39?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Cableman, Nov 3, 2003.

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  1. Cableman

    Cableman Member

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    [​IMG]

    http://www.cz-usa.com/product.detail.php?id=15

    I am going to order this gun tomorrw, but I can't decide which one to get.

    The 223 or the 7.62 X 39?

    I am leaning on the 223 because I have an AR15, so the cartridge is the same...but the 7.62 x 39 is a bigger bullet and a little more punch. I think the 223 would be more accurate, but how is the 7.62 X 39 for accuracy in a bolt action? They are both cheap to shoot, I think the 7.62 X 39 is even cheaper than the 223.

    So which one to get, the 223 or the 7.62?
     
  2. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Please understand I am prejudiced.

    I believe a .30 round is more versatile than a .22. You can always fire a heavier bullet at varmints, but a varmint bullet at larger game won't work very well. 7.62x39mm is also the cheapest centerfire round one can find. I found a recent American Rifleman that fired around 2" groups with the 7.62 version. For a light, short-barrelled carbine, that's just fine.

    Yes, you will have difficulty hitting targets over 200 meters, in all likelihood- but you already have an AR for that, don't you?

    Best,

    John, future 527 owner
     
  3. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    Get both, then you won't have to choose between them! :D
     
  4. JohnMc

    JohnMc Member

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    The 7.62x39 would be a deer-getter. I've got a 527 american in .223 and it shoots great. I'd like the carbine in 7.62x39. So, I'd ammend Preacherman's reccomendation and get both, but with the .223 in the American or Varmint model and the 7.62x39 in the carbine!

    I recall that the recent Dope Bag article mentioned that the 7.62x39 CZ 527's bore was actually .308 and that most American ammo makers use .308 bullets, so this would shoot American manufacture bullets best. The commie specs (what's equivilent to SAAMI?) for 7.62x39 is a .311 bullet. As the article said, it's not a big deal unless you're looking to split MOA's.

    JohnMc
     
  5. Lawyerman

    Lawyerman Member

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    I have a 527 in 7.62x39 and it is a wonderful rifle. It will probably train my sons to hunt. I would suggest getting the safety modified to work in the American way regardless of which gun you get.
     
  6. TX65

    TX65 Member

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    My question has more to do with CZ Rifles in general.

    How do the CZ rifles compare to other european rifle makers such as Sako, Steyr and Tikka with respect to quality, fit and finish, etc?

    My father had a couple of BRNO rifles and I remember them being beautiful pieces of work. Reading on the CZ website, it appears that CZ was the manufacturer of BRNO branded rifles.
     
  7. Kjay

    Kjay Member

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    Out of curiousity - anyone know what scope mounts this carbine takes? Factory supplied or are these available from most makers?
     
  8. Jaywalker

    Jaywalker Member

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    TX65,

    CZs are good rifles for the money, but if you want Sako quality fit and finish, you'll have to buy a Sako. From what I've read, though, they're probably equally accurate. I have read some extremely positive things about CZ rimfires, and some distubing things, however, about some Sako rimfires. Go to www.rimfirecentral.com for those issues.

    Jaywalker
     
  9. Cableman

    Cableman Member

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    Well I got the 223 version

    Rings are available from CZ, Millet, and another manufacturer which I can't remember now.

    I just ordered the CZ rings when I ordered the rifle.

    I will give a report when I get mine.
     
  10. RustyHammer

    RustyHammer Member

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    Depends on what you're going to use it for.

    For target shooting and small game, I'd go with the .223.

    For larger game and maybe as a "truck gun" job, I'd go with the 7.62.

    /Rusty
     
  11. Sharpshooter223

    Sharpshooter223 Member

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    I'm all for the 223 over the 7.62x39. I've had great luck with the .223 caliber and I've had terrible experiences with the other. Actually about a month ago a friend came over with his 7.62x39 ruger and I sighted it in for him and was dissapointed that he WASTED a redfield 3x9 scope on it. The ammo for them runs about the same price especially at gun shows. .223 .223.
     
  12. JohnMc

    JohnMc Member

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    Warne and Burris also make rings. B-square makes a CZ mount to weaver base adaptor, for those who want a weaver mount.

    Sharpshooter,
    Which type of bullet, commblock or USA manufacture? I'm curious as how this compares with the American Rifleman Dope Bag article.

    John Mc
     
  13. Sharpshooter223

    Sharpshooter223 Member

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    well in my Remington 700 vss .223 I've used many types of bullets... the sierra remington hornady nosler several others and factory ammo all shot about half inch groups at 100 yards and the best bullets i've shot through it are the hornady V-Max bullets. They are high but they bring it down to just under a 1/4" group. In my browning A-bolt medallion .223 so far i've only shot one type of ammo I haven't had it very long. I've been shooting the Ultramax 52gr. ammunition which is just cheap factory shells and they shoot under 1/10" every time best group with them was .006 and I haven't seen any reason to switch over to any other bullet just yet. In the remington I've only used 40 45 50 52 and 55 grain bullets they all shot about the same groups once I perfected the powder charges.
     
  14. TooTech

    TooTech Member

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    I've got two CZ527 rifles in .223, both are the Lux version. One for me and one for my son. Excellent rifles, beautiful wood, I especially like the single-set trigger. External finish is very nice, some persons have reported that you might want to glass bed the action to get the best accuracy out of the gun.

    I got factory rings for mine from www.jgsales.com

    Brownell's carries rings from a number of makers as well. www.brownells.com
     
  15. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Sharpshooter,

    If your basis for comparison is a 7.62x39 ruger vs PSS .223, of course you'll think the Russian is inaccurate! Especially if you aren't aware that the Mini could be the least accurate American-made autoloader. Don't blame the round for the platform's inadequacies. You also are comparing American-made Varmint ammo to...? Surely you aren't comparing ammo designed to shoot small critters at long ranges with the least expensive, Former Combloc-produced nonreloadable stuff most people shoot in their 7.62x39's?

    "I've been shooting the Ultramax 52gr. ammunition which is just cheap factory shells and they shoot under 1/10" every time best group with them was .006." Wow. This means you are one of the world's top shooters (assuming you're shooting at 100 yards or meters), most probably even better than the competitors I am aware of on the board, and we welcome your skill here.

    John
     
  16. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    "I've been shooting the Ultramax 52gr. ammunition which is just cheap factory shells and they shoot under 1/10" every time best group with them was .006."

    Congratulations you are now one of the top 5 benchrest shooters on Earth. Either that or you write for Guns & Ammo.

    Gonna have to file that one under, "believe it when I see it."
     
  17. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Aw, lay off. I've gotten lotsa two-shot groups that good.

    :D, Art
     
  18. C.R.Sam

    C.R.Sam Moderator Emeritus

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    Oh my goodness gracious sakes alive.
    Was all pumped bout takin my small bore and big bore match guns out this weekend.
    Think might try knitting instead.

    Sam
     
  19. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Sam, you and I will start a knitting ring together. I can't even shoot a one shot group that small.
     
  20. B27

    B27 Member

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    The recent AR article about the CZ527 in 7.62x39 was wrong about the bore diameter. It is in fact the proper .311 diameter and this may well explain the lousy accuracy results they got.
    Feed these carbines ammo with .311 diameter bullets in it and they shine.
    Winchester produces a soft point with the correct diameter bullet and good results are being seen from a number of less expensive imported types usually bought for blasting fun with AK's.
    The .223 version would however be easier to feed and spare mags are much easier to find and cost less.
    I found five spare mags for mine but it took awhile and they were not cheap.

    http://www.fototime.com/980A825C11FD429/standard.jpg

    http://www.fototime.com/F79D930437F868E/standard.jpg

    3 rounds at 100 meters-

    http://www.fototime.com/B2821D142B30854/standard.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2003
  21. makarov

    makarov Member

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    I have the 527 Varmint model with the gray Kevlar stock. Nice gun. It is in .223 and will shoot .0000001" groups. Just kidding. It is more accurate than I am though. I like the set trigger too.

    I am considering the Carbine in 7.62 to go along with my SKS's in that caliber. Good to hear it has the .311 bore. The CZ rings are very nice, I had to buy some for my gun. The American comes with them, but the more expensive model doesn't. Go figure.

    I also have two 452's and a CZ-85 Combat, so you could say that I like CZ's. They are a good value, accurate and built so you can pass them on to your grandkids.
     
  22. CaesarI

    CaesarI Member

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    Why get either?

    I thought rifles were meant for shooting people far away. Both of these cartridges were designed for full auto weapons, not bolt guns, as such they have handicapped ranges.

    If you're still intent on it, I'd go for the 7.62X39

    Whoever said it was using a .308 barrel is nuts. No manufacturer would build a rifle with a barrel TIGHTER than spec. Not on purpose. The result: BOOM!

    -Morgan
     
  23. Matt G

    Matt G Moderator Emeritus

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    Sorry, Caesar, but there are some manufacturers cutting bores to the original round's standard (.311"), and some cutting to the American standard (.308"). .003" isn't enough oversize in a ductile, maleable material like a gilding metal and lead bullet (or even steel core), to cause the overpressure to become a "Boom" situation; just enough to throw off your accuracy. Still and all, I wouldn't intentionally put .311 projectiles in my .308 rifle. For that matter, unless I exclusively handloaded, I probably wouldn't want a .308 bore 7.62X39.

    The CZ's are nifty, aren't they? While my knee jerk response is to agree whole-heartedly with John's assessment on the basis of versatility, there is something to be said for a handy varminter carbine. If you're a bachelor like John, you know you'll just have to end up getting them both. If you're a family man like myself, you'll have to settle on one over the other. :) Heck with it-- get the 7.62. There's plenty of cheap factory ammo available for practicing practical field positions (which the carbine is made for, BTW, NOT for bench-resting .006 angstrom groups), and if you handload, you can reportedly really make the 7.62X39 shine. (so I read; I've never loaded for that particular round. :eek: )
     
  24. Sharpshooter223

    Sharpshooter223 Member

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    No reason to hate on me guys. Maybe i'm doing something wrong with my measuring then? I measure the hole then subtract .223 from the measurement isn't that how to do it?
     
  25. B27

    B27 Member

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