CZ-82 or Model 10?

[Hawthorne2k]

I'll be making a pilgrimage up to J&G Sales on Friday to buy a pistol solely for the home. I've narrowed it down to the CZ-82 and the S+W Model 10, both excellent firearms from 1st-class companies.

But I can only get one.

Cz-82
Pros

• It's an autoloader, and I tend to like the bottom-feeders
• I adore my pre-B CZ75
• 12 rounds of 9x18 to start and/or end the fight

Cons

• It's a bottom-feeder, which means things can go wrong more often. Sure, it's reliable, but still...
• No decocker. I like to start the first round off in double-action, and I'm always a bit nervous about dropping the hammer with live round in the chamber
• Ammo is cheap, but it's not in the big-box stores near me.

Model 10
Pros

• I'm not much of a wheel gun fan, but I have a 5 pin K-22 that I love
• Having a .22 that's just like my home defence gun means *cheap* practice
• .38 Special +P delivers a lot more ooomph on the target than 9x18

Cons

• 6 Rounds to start and/or end the fight with, which could be an issue with more than one attacker
• I like semi-autos. Always have, probably always will
• Ammo is a bit more expensive than the CZ, but it is available in the big retailers around me

The thing is, either gun will do what I want it to do: Stay in a box for years on end, practiced with occasionally and only be used in the worst of situations.

Thoughts?

 

[19-3Ben]

I adore my pre-B CZ75

Sounds like you already have an awesome HD pistol already.
Or, to put it in your words:

Pros:
-You already own it, so it doesn't cost you a penny
-16+1 rounds of 9mm is more than enough to end any fight.
-9mm+p packs more ooomph than 9X18 and all but the hottest .38spl loads.
-you like bottom feeders.
-This is a gun you already love.
-Ammo is cheap and everywhere.

Cons:
-You have to go spend the $200-250 you were going to spend on a new HD pistol on something else.

Edit to add: that $200-250 would be well spent on a Kadet kit for your CZ75 so that you can practice with the same gun, but with .22lr!!!

 

[christcorp]

The CZ-82 without even a doubt. And, FWIW; you can scratch the "NO DECOCKER" off of the CZ-82 as a con. It has an automatic transfer latch so that you can lower the hammer and not let it touch the firing pin. The minute you let go of the trigger, with the hammer released, the latch engages and doesn't let the hammer go all the way down onto the firing pin. It then becomes a double action. In other words, your finger MUST remain on the trigger for the hammer to hit the firing pin. It is the same as a decocker, except you do it manually.

And for those that are 1911A fans, you can also carry it cocked and locked.

I definitely like the Model 10 S&W. I have a model 13-1 357 mag which is probably my #2 favorite gun in my collection. But you're talking about 2 totally different types of guns here. The Cz-82 is easier to conceal, easier to carry, cheaper on ammo, 12 round magazine, will literally shoot anything you feed it. Yes, the model 10 is a classic. And in it's day, it was the beast. But the CZ-82 is still a kick butt gun. It is definitely the better choice. At least in my opinion.

 

[Onward Allusion]

Both are good weapons, but the CZ82 wins out -
- Tradition DA/SA with "second strike" (should you be inclined for such things -vs- TRB)
- Accurate
- Inexpensive ammo - buy 1,000 rounds online for less than $200.
- Capacity 12 -vs- 6
- Smaller size for concealment

 

[Hawthorne2k]

The pre-B's been worked over by Angus' shop and is my primary IPSC gun. It's a great gun and just a joy to shoot, (and in fact I bought it for home defence lo these many years ago), but without a firing pin block, bad things will happen if I let go of the hammer during a decock. And the Kadets I've seen are the $400 and not $200 dollar range.

I want the first shot to be double action for two reasons:

- I shoot the CZ75 in IPSC Production, which means I shoot the first round double-action, so that's what I'm used to.
- My wife may be using this in an emergency. She's a good shot, but she's not shot in IPSC or any stress shooting scenario, and I'm not confident that she'll remember to flick off the safety in a do-or-die situation.

 

[John Wayne]

I would go with the model 10. I don't think the CZ82 is a bad pistol by any means, but I would prefer .38 special to 9x18, even if you do get 12 rounds.

Model 10:
-more controllable
-ammo is more common (not necessarily cheaper)
-a lot easier to reload for
-shoots a more powerful cartridge
-HAS COMMONLY AVAILABLE PARTS (this is in bold because to me it's a deciding factor if I'm buying a gun that's not new)

CZ:
-more concealable
-holds more rounds of less powerful ammo
-ammo is cheaper (but generally non-reloadable)

I would go with the model 10. Proven gun, proven round, great size and a huge market for parts, grips, holsters, and readily available ammo. Also has a much better selection of defensive ammo. IMO it's also going to hold its value better and be easier to resell, should you elect to do so.

With the CZ it's going to be harder to find parts and holsters, and the price/availability of the ammo is largely dependant on import. It might stay cheap and readily available, or it might be double in price in a few months.

I don't recommend not practicing with any gun you intend to use to defend yourself. Practicing with your .22 revolver will give you the same feel, so another good point for going with the S&W 10. If you really intend to "let it sit in a box," the model 10 has a "pick-up-and-shoot" manual of arms that doesn't carry the same problems the CZ might if you were not familiar with it (forgetting to chamber a round, forgetting whether "up" is safe or "up" is fire, etc.).

 

[David E]

The thing is, either gun will do what I want it to do: Stay in a box for years on end, practiced with occasionally and only be used in the worst of situations.

Thoughts?

I think it doesn't matter in the least, if this is your ultimate "use."

But. were it ME, I'd pick the M-10 in a heartbeat. It's different enough from the already owned 9mm and a very versatile, classic platform.

Of coure, I'd shoot it more often than "occasionally," but that's me.

 

[christcorp]

John; I would say that the CZ-82/9x18 is as much, if not MORE, of a PROVEN GUN and PROVEN ROUND. The round has been used by probably half the world's armies and police. The CZ-82 is probably one of the most proficient guns on the planet. Along side of it's sister the Makarov. Nothing against the model 10 or the 38spl. But it is no way more proven than the 9x18. And as for the guns, the model 10 may have been around longer, but I would guess that there are more 9x18 pistols, including the cz-82 available in the world than the model 10.

And hawthorn, the CZ-82 is VERY MUCH a double action pistol. The only reason I would choose a 38spl is if I already reloaded that round and simply wanted another gun for the caliber. I.e. I have a 357 mag revolver. I am considering a Rossi lever action 357/38 spl rifle. And reloading for the 9x18 is totally feasible. Matter of fact, it's a breeze. You can order the dies any place. You can even use regular 9mm luger brass and trim it down 1mm and reload 9mm makarov 9x18 bullets into it. Works great. Then again; with ammo prices of russian 9x18 ammo being about $9 a box, most people don't reload it. It's not worth it. But if you wanted to, it's definitely easy. Especially with all the 9mm luger brass available.

 

[19-3Ben]

The pre-B's been worked over by Angus' shop and is my primary IPSC gun. It's a great gun and just a joy to shoot, (and in fact I bought it for home defence lo these many years ago), but without a firing pin block, bad things will happen if I let go of the hammer during a decock. And the Kadets I've seen are the $400 and not $200 dollar range.

Ahhh... I see. You've really thought this one through then.
In that case, I'd say go with the CZ82 just because you're accustomed to autos from your IPSC training, and you can make good use of all that muscle memory you've built up.

 

[John Wayne]

By more proven, I meant that it has a longer history. IIRC, the model 10 is the oldest currently-produced handgun, predating even the 1911.

I know reloading the 9x18 is possible, but it is not as easy as loading for .38 special. A lot of 9x18 is steel cased or berdan primed. 9x19 cases have to be trimmed, deburred, etc. whereas .38 spl brass is common, lasts forever, headspaces on the rim, and doesn't get ejected. Given that the OP plans on leaving the gun in a box, reloading for either cartridge is probably a moot point anyway.

I own guns in both .38 special and 9x18. The rounds are similar in velocity and diameter, but the .38 shoots 158 gr. bullets at 1,050 fps and the 9x18 shoots 95 gr. bullets at that velocity.

 

[christcorp]

No doubt that the model 10 is a very fine gun. But unless someone was collecting original or rare guns, I just can't see the practicality of a 38spl revolver. For almost the same price, you should go for a 357 magnum revolver. Then you have options. E.g. the S&W model 13, 19, and 27 are definitely excellent choices. You still have the option of 38spl with the option of 357 mag. Personally, I think the 357 magnum revolver is the BEST ALL AROUND PISTOL on the planet. It should be everyone's first pistol purchase.

Of course, if a person has tons of weapons, and it's more as a collectible, then there's a whole different reason to get whichever gun a person wants. From a collector's view, I'd get the CZ-82, because those are limited. There will be a time when you can no longer get one. And the prices in the last couple of years have almost doubled. The Model 10, you will be able to find for many years to come. As for reloading, I find that option not very practical for a 9mm makarov. Not because of difficulties. Because the ammo is so cheap, it's not WORTH reloading. I can buy 1000 rounds right now for $160 and store it away for when the world goes to shiite. At $8 a box, it's not worth reloading. Same reason I don't reload .223/5.56. When PMC Bronze is only $6.49 and russian tula steel case is only $3.99 a box of 20, it's not worth reloading.

Both the model 10 and the CZ-82 are great guns. But they are apples and oranges. Is it a gun you think you need; or something you just want. If it's that you NEED a gun; get the CZ-82. If it's that you WANT a gun; get whatever you want. Don't ask us. It doesn't matter what we say. Not when it's about WANT.

In my opinion; the very first gun EVERYONE should own is a 357 magnum revolver. With the exception of a couple brands, it doesn't matter which one. Just that you NEED that pistol. It is the most versatile gun/caliber in the world.
Then, when you want to get into semi-auto, you should get a proven true military/Police pistol. Not a military/police "STYLE" but an actual military pistol. CZ-82, PA-63, luger, etc.... Something in the 9mm Makarov or 9mm luger calibers. Ammo is cheap and readily available. The guns are indestructible. Of course, you also need a 12 gauge pump shotgun like a remington 870. After that, it's all about what you WANT. You are no longer in the NEED category.

Not knowing really what the OP has, other than a CZ-75, it should be determined if he simply wants to "BLOW MONEY". Nothing wrong with that. I just lost close to $1000 at the casinos last weekend, and just bought Armor Piercing Ammo from the CMP. If it's just wanting to blow money, it shouldn't matter what we think. If he NEEDS a gun, then neither might be the right answer.

 

[Hawthorne2k]

Not knowing really what the OP has, other than a CZ-75, it should be determined if he simply wants to "BLOW MONEY". Nothing wrong with that. I just lost close to $1000 at the casinos last weekend, and just bought Armor Piercing Ammo from the CMP. If it's just wanting to blow money, it shouldn't matter what we think. If he NEEDS a gun, then neither might be the right answer.

Right now, my primary home gun is a 9mm Sccy, and it's just not suited to that purpose (and not that good of a gun for ANY purpose: If I had to do it over again, I'd get the Kel-Tec PF-9). Once I get these new pistol, the Sccy is going back to the shop (again) and if it works better after that, it'll become another daily carry gun for me. Other than that, in handguns, I have the K22 .22 revolver and CZ75 I mentioned as well as a P3AT as my current daily carry. That, and a few long guns (an AR, a sporterized M1903, a couple of scatterguns and a .22 rifle) are what I have now.

Not much I know, but you do what you can, not what you should.

Whatever I get, it'll reside in a quick-access safe in the front closet and be the primary stopper on the lower floor. Upstairs, I have a Mossberg 500 Persuader in our bedroom closet (again with a lock: I have a four year old son, and he knows not to touch the guns, but still...). The new gun will be the first line of defense for the home for my wife and the backup for my P3AT (I've taken to carrying it all the time around the house now. It's so small and light, why not?).

I started out with the M1903, the K-22 and a gorgeous 20ga 870 Wingmaster I inherited from my father-in-law. The CZ I bought as a home defence gun, then I got into IPSC a couple of years ago and everything else has been bought since then.

As I see it, the issue is that the Model 10 and CZ82 are both fantastic guns. It's not like anyone can say "Go with X 'cause Y is a POS that nobody wants or likes", they're both proven, reliable pistols with outstanding records of service that stretch back for decades. They'll both do the job I need them to do, which is be the firearms equivalent of a fire extinguisher.

I could use the Mossy (and I do indeed love that gun), but if I did, I would still want something in our bedroom, which is our safe room for the house.

My budget is $300 (-ish) for the gun, 100 rounds of practice ammo, 50 rounds of defensive ammo and a spare magazine/speed loader, and after weeks of thinking about it, I've narrowed it down to these two excellent firearms. I don't think I'll be disapointed with either, but I would like to get the most bang for my buck.

So to speak.

 

[nalioth]

No doubt that the model 10 is a very fine gun. But unless someone was collecting original or rare guns, I just can't see the practicality of a 38spl revolver. For almost the same price, you should go for a 357 magnum revolver. Then you have options. E.g. the S&W model 13, 19, and 27 are definitely excellent choices. You still have the option of 38spl with the option of 357 mag. Personally, I think the 357 magnum revolver is the BEST ALL AROUND PISTOL on the planet. It should be everyone's first pistol purchase.

Ain't nothin' wrong with a .38 Special.

It's more common than the 9x18 and is easier to reload. It does the job if utilized correctly.


As far as "Which one?", you'll need to consult your nearest coin after a flip. Both are fine weapons.

 

[ArmedBear]

Not sure why you have to "start and end a fight with 6." I have speedloaders. So does anyone else who uses a revolver for anything but a toy. They work great, and a Model 10 has plenty of room.

I know a bunch of old cops. They never had any objections to the .38 Special as a defensive round, and they actually had to use it.

.38 Special is the second round I ever handloaded, and it's still probably my favorite. It's easy, cheap, and inherently accurate.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Yes. I use it for other than a toy. My 24/7 pocket carry is an S&W Model 642 and two "house guns" on constant duty are a 4" S&W Model 10 HB and a Model 64 snub. (The Model 64 snub is less than 2' from my right hand as this is being typed.) All are loaded with Remington 158-gr. LHP +P.

Between the two choices, I voted for the Model 10. I have owned both pistols mentioned and simply prefer the ballistics of the .38 Special to the 9x18mm. I was trained in double-action shooting decades ago when the revolver was the predominant police sidearm and feel "at home" with it. At the same time, I do not expect my decision to necessarily be the "right" one for everyone. In my opinion, it boils down to which an individual actually prefers and can get the hits with.

 

[ArmedBear]

Another 642 carrier and Model 10 owner here.

I do have a high-cap large-caliber semiauto for HD, etc. Let's just say that, if I WERE to be attacked by a violent armed gang, I wouldn't want to be holding a little slide-biter that spits Makarov rounds.

 

[RonAMOK]

My recommendation is the Model 10 because every one should have a good center fire revolver and the Model 10 is a very good revolver, as good as your K22. It has a very large selection of after market stocks available for it and can be fit to almost any hand. If the CZ is not a good fit for your wife, the primary user, it will be harder to retro fit it to her and so would not be a good choice.

If you decide to get a Model 10 this thread may help pick a good one:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=1430

Just checked the J&G add and have some things for you to consider.

You might consider this. “Stock # 25-2010xqx” ”Smith & Wesson Model 64 38spl, 4 Inch barrel, Stainless“, very similar to the Model 10 but stainless steel, $260. If esthetics / shiny are not an issue a stainless gun might be less susceptible to damage from benign neglect, setting in that box, than blued steel. Even here in Arizona we have a few weeks of damp air to contend with. But it may be just out of your budget.

Also ask the clerk what you get with “hand select”. It adds $10 to the price but I thought it was worth it when I bought my CZ there. I got an 83. Love both my 82 and 83.

If the 82 fits her hand and you decide to get it and you pay for “hand select” have them take the grips off the gun you intend to purchase and inspect the inside of the gun. My 83 had 3 cotton fibers in pinch spots in the gun. They had started to surface rust. No big deal I got it early and there was no damage. I don’t blame J&G it probably happened when the guns were prepared for export shipping.

Buy the extra mags there, $30 each. They are great mags. I don’t know if they are available any were else. I got all I needed there but I have no idea how long they will be available.

The 82 is also a great candidate for Dura Coat,. They don’t have a great finish to start with.

 

[woad_yurt]

In the dark when I've just been jerked out of sleep, I'd rather have the K-frame. For me, between the two, the Model 10 is way faster to bring on target and way easier to hit with in all conditions. It's much more of a natural pointer and shooter. With a the right grips, it becomes part of one's hand, almost.

I really like Model 10s:

​

 

[Fastcast]

Let's just say that, if I WERE to be attacked by a violent armed gang, I wouldn't want to be holding a little slide-biter that spits Makarov rounds.

LOL ..... If I was about to be attacked by a violent gang, I'd take 13 rounds of 9mak and my CZ-82 any day over 5-6 .38sp. out of a 642 or M10.

The CZ-82 is NO slide biter, points like a dream, is as accurate as any pistol I've shot, dead nuts reliable and accurate follow up shots are lightening quick.

4 attackers get 3 rounds each and if that doesn't do it, there's one left for me.

If you get hit with 2-3 rounds of 9mak, rest assured, the only thing "spitting" is gonna be the BG spitting up blood.

 

[Malodorousroadkill]

This is a hard decision here. The cz is a good gun, solid ammo capacity, ammo is reasonably priced/available, and semis tend to be easier to make hits with thanks to the lighter SA triggers. However, a good condition Smith m10 is one of the most reliable and proven defensive small arms in the world. .38+P does seem to have the edge in firepower. But expect to train more with a revolver. Easier to use, but harder to use effectively IMO. I want to vote for the revolver, but to be effective a revolver needs more trigger time at the range and .38 special is rather pricey these days, nearly .45 acp. The CZ is generally a cheaper shooter(if you order in bulk), but parts can be a problem. I doubt that parts will be a problem for model 10s for at least another hundred years.

 

[tinygnat219]

Easy. Both are cheap enough to acquire. Grab 'em both.

 

[ArmedBear]

Good defensive ammo is not easy to come by in 9x18 Mak. It's easy as anything to get in .38 Special.

If you shoot 3 shots at one member of an armed gang, you're going to get shot. Give me a real round if I really expect multiple attackers. Now that .45ACP is readily available in 14-shot guns, there's no good reason not to use 230 grain +P pre-cut HPs in any situation where you want to be armed against multiple attackers, unless you simply can't get your fingers around the grips of a doublestack .45 (a legitimate issue for some people).

For everyday carry, a revolver does great.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't get a CZ pistol. I like the things all around, from small to large, though I don't currently own one. Most are heavy for what they offer, but they shoot very well. The OP, however, wants a reliable, no-nuisance defensive gun for cheap, from what I can tell.

 

[Fastcast]

Now that .45ACP is readily available in 14-shot guns, there's no good reason not to use 230 grain +P pre-cut HPs in any situation where you want to be armed against multiple attackers, unless you simply can't get your fingers around the grips of a doublestack .45 (a legitimate issue for some people).

I was under the impression we were talking about .38sp. M10 or 9mak CZ-82.....Not .45

The OP, however, wants a reliable, no-nuisance defensive gun for cheap, from what I can tell.

Yes, but he mentioned nothing of considering a hi-cap .45.....Only M10 or CZ-82.....The M10 is a dandy home defense gun but under your scenario of a violent gang/multiple intruders entering ones castle, I'm taking a CZ-82 to that gun fight, every time over a M10.....With 13 rounds of an un-"real" caliber (LOL) over 6 rounds of a so called "real" caliber that has never proven to be far superior ballistically than 9mak.....JM.02

 

[CajunBass]

I've sort of got both. I've got a CZ-82 and a Colt Official Police 38. The Colt is a little bigger than a Model 10 but not enough to make any practical difference I don't think.

If I had to choose between the two, I'd get/keep the 38. Around here 9x18 ammo is scarce and expensive. Even cheap range ammo is about $30.00 a box. Sure I can and do order it online for a lot less, but that's not as convient as just walking in and buying ammo. Add to that the fact that the revolver doesn't toss it's brass all over so I don't have to chase it to reload it, if I want to.

 

[ArmedBear]

9x18 Mak is fine if you handload for it.

I'm talking about commercial defensive ammo.

And if you really want to defend your home against multiple armed attackers, I'd say that your home and your life are worth a few hundred bucks. Get a hi-cap .45, at least. Or even something like an XD 9mm Service on sale -- something relatively cheap and reliable, with readily-available, common defensive ammo.

The difference in price will be made up in practice ammo very quickly -- because you sure as hell won't be able to stop multiple armed attackers with a pistol without practice.