CZ Quality Slipping Big time

[Master Blaster]

I just got back from my favorite local gunshop. They had ordered two CZ 452 American heavy barrel models for stock, and partly because I had requested one.

I really wanted to buy one of the .17 HMR varmint models, the model they got in from the wholesaler was a heavy barreled american, which was a nice cross between the american and the varmint model. Both guns had nice looking walnut wood stocks and a 21" heavy barrrel.

I go to work the bolt on the first one and its horribly rough. Not only is it rough but it wont close!!!!! I check to see if the safety is on (I had already looked and it was not) its not of course. I hand the gun back to the proprietor and he pushes the bolt hard forward and closes it. So I take it back again puzzled. (Now I have a 452 special in .22lr. that I bought back in July, and the bolt is a smooth as glass, the action on it is fabulous as good as my Anschutz 64).

So I take the bolt out of the 452 American Varmint to see what the problem is and there are huge chatter marks on the inside edges of the rails /ways. not only that but now I can see that the machining on the last 1/4" is CROOKED, Yes crooked which is causing the bolt to bind since its not all the way forward. You have to force the bolt forward to close it, and even then it takes about 20 lbs of force.

So thay bring out the second one they ordered, and its even worse.

I suggested that they should send both guns back to the wholesaler, and they tell me that they dont want to "waste money on the shipping". Other CZs that they have received were similar, some much better and some worse. But that no one had brought one back with a problem.

Needless to say I thanked them but passed on buying either one.
They were selling them for $389 out the door.

I have to wonder if the machining was that crooked, if the guns were properly headspaced at the factory, I have never seen a bolt .17 HMR blow up in someones face, but thanks I dont want to be the first.

Well anyway the owner said that when they get the next batch in he will call me, and I can check them out.

So what is going on with CZ's QC????????

 

[Cosmoline]

Alarming! I hope they're not falling down that all-too-familiar slope of shoddy. I had heard the demand was outstripping supply ont he 452's. Frankly the "American" line concerns me, since it may be CZ's way of saying "rifles too crappy for Europeans".

So far I've had no problems. The 550 Safari I've got on layaway came with a sample target that looked fine and it seems to cycle fine.

But let me get this straight. The dealer told you there were some WORSE than this and yet nobody ever brought one back? I also wonder at their shrug-shoulder attitude. They're also on the hook if they sell a rifle they know has serious bolt problems that could lead to headspacing issues.

 

[CZ-100]

My dad just got his new RAMI .40 last week and we took it to the range this weekend. It preformed flawlessly, the workmanship is also top notch.

 

[hksw]

Hmm. I'm in the market for a .17 HMR Varmint also. Glad I read your post as I probably would have just bought a CZ 452 without looking at it first taking their quality for granted. I'll have to be sure toclosely examine the action before purchasing.

 

[VG]

When did CZ get a reputation for high quality?

I have a '96 85 Combat, and it sure as h@ll didn't help foster any such reputation!

 

[SirPorl]

Everyone has a bad day......

Every gun manufacturer will unfortunately let some poor stuff out once in awhile. It just happens. I have been very fortunate that every CZ I have purchased has been high quality. The only 2 that I actually handled before I bought was my CZ100 and my 452 Special. I have been pretty fortunate I guess. CZ does have great service though if you ever have to make use of it. I think CZ will get on the ball and correct this problem soon, I mean they will have to if they want to stay in business.


SirPorl

 

[WhiteKnight]

When did CZ get a reputation for high quality?

Most likely he's referring to the 452 rimfire lineup.

 

[SirPorl]

I might have low standards

I need to get off the pipe because I totally missed the comment about CZ not being known for quality. I must have low standards or something because I think all of my CZ firearms are top notch quality. They all have a nice finish, function nicely, are quite accurate, and were priced quite competitively. We just all have a different working definition of what "quality" is I guess. Oh well *sigh*

good shooting all,
SirPorl

 

[Cosmoline]

As far as their long guns, CZ has a sterling reputation for rimfires, and I've never seen anything less than excellence in these. Their standard centerfire rifles have a rep. for being solid, well-made field rifles on par with Rugers. Nothing too exceptional, though. Their *safari* rifles are legendary, and the old BRNO 602's are still extremely popular among African guides. The jury is still somewhat out on the new 550 Safaris, but I'm gonna be a member whenever I can get back to the gun store with more money.

I am suspicious of the "American" line CZ is putting out. The whole concept irritates me deeply and I find it insulting. They should call the line "American*" and then underneath "*but not Cosmoline, he has better taste in rifles than that"

 

[SirPorl]

What is your beef?

Cosmoline,

I was just curious as to what your beef is with the "American" series CZ is putting out . I think they are just following the trend of what has been selling. I myself personally liked the 550 "Lux" better than the American that I ended up buying. What sold me on the American is that it was in the caliber that I wanted. I like iron sites on a rifle with the option of scoping. I really like my 550 American though. It is accurate, nice finish, sweet set trigger, and it was pretty cheap.

SirPorl

 

[MLC]

I am positively thrilled with my CZ 452 rimfire, my 550 American in 6.5x55 was lacking in the stock QC.
The factory triggers on both rifles are far and away better than any American factory rifle I own.

 

[Cosmoline]

My main beef is that the "American" versions strip off some of the best iron sights on any factory rifles. Why? I have no clue. Elmer Keith, who was about as American a rifleman as you can find, stressed the need to have good irons as a backup even if you use a scope.

This is particularly idiotic with the "American" 452, which removes awesome tangent sights of the Lux at no price reduction! Good deal for CZ, bad deal for whoever buys it. Aside from cost issues, the notion of needing a scope for a .22 (barring eye problems of course) is highly questionable. The Lux's tangent sights are excellent and allow the shooter to neutralize the drop of the round.

Somewhere along the line CZ was informed that American shooters hate iron sights and can't use them. CZ has also been told that Americans need to have Monte Carlo stocks and can't deal with the existing CZ stocks because they're too "European." I don't know about you, but I love the standard CZ stocks. If I want a standard American stock I'll get a Remchester.

 

[SirPorl]

I see your points

Cosmoline,

You make some very solid points. As I stated before I also like having irons and the option of scoping. I don't mind the euro stock either. I also don't mine the monte stock. I guess I am just not that fussy. Once again you make some valid points about them getting rid of some pretty good iron sites and not lowering the asking price. I just wish they would make the "Lux" in a wider flavor of calibers.

SirPorl

 

[JohnBT]

The American is a good handling, good looking rifle. Shoots good, too. If I'd wanted one with open sights I'd would've bought one with open sights.

I've seen lots of CZ rifles over the years that had poor stocks and especially poor checkering. I can't say that I've seen any with bad metal work, so this sounds like a really bad trend in the grand scheme of things.

John'FOUREYES'BT

 

[albanian]

I bought a CZ-452 "Special" or whatever they call it about 3 years ago. It is the Lux with a walnut stained beech stock instead of a real walnut stock. I only paid $196 for it out the door new. I had a local gunshop order me one and I bought it as soon as it came in. The gunshop guys were circled around my new gun taking turns working the action and checking it out. They did not sell CZs at that shop and they had never seen one but they were clearly impressed.

After I bought the gun, a few months later, I went back into the shop and they had a full line of CZ rifles. They were charging much more than $196 for the special grade so I guess it costs more to buy a rifle that they have in stock than it does to have them order it for you.

The quality on mine is top notch. It is all machined steel and wood. There are only 1 or 2 small parts that are made of plastic like the mag floor plate. It is made better than most American gun for the same price. The only issue I have ever had is, about 2" from the end of the muzzle, there is a seam in the bbl like someone press fitted the last 2" of bbl onto the gun from a separate chunk of steel. There is no seam when I look down the bore but sometimes there aprears to be smoke dust leaking out of the seam after it has sat for a while. I am confused at what it is and I wonder if anyone else has noticed this?

 

[Master Blaster]

I expected high quality and I did not expect to see a serious problem with machining and function like I did.

The only issue I have ever had is, about 2" from the end of the muzzle, there is a seam in the bbl like someone press fitted the last 2" of bbl onto the gun from a separate chunk of steel.

My 452 special is the same, its actually that the end of the barrel is machined smaller than the rest of the diameter and then the tube that holds the font sight is pressfitted over the end of the barrel, I guess that this allows tham to offer different types of front sights on the same barrel without changing the machining of the barrel itself. The white stuff yousee is probably left over bluing salts that are seeping out of the seam, or some kind of lube they used when they pressfitted the front sight assembly on the barrel.

I love my 452 Special, you cant beat $500 (compared to other .22lrs) quality for $239 I paid for mine.

I really wanted that american, but I cant buy a defective gun and then have to send it to CZ for repair. I thought about getting one through my club FFL his price would have been $60 less with the transfer, but if they sent what I saw yesterday at the gunshop, I would have had to insist that it be sent back to the wholesaler which would have cost me $25.

Instead of the CZ I ordered a 17HMR 16" bull barrel and a scope mount for my Thompson center contender.

 

[Hawkeye421]

You also posted this at rimfirecentral.com. If you go to that forum your negative input is the only one that i have seen at that forum which has 1000's of member's feedback. I have a CZ-452 American and the quality is excellent just like the 1000's at rimfirecentral have posted. I lapped my bolt with Flitz metal polish, free floated the barrel and sealed it with Tru oil, pillar bedded mine with threated lamp post, put in the Brownell's adjustable trigger. Mine and my brothers has excellent accuracy. Mine with match bullets will shoot less than dime size groups @50yds with a benchrest...some in the same hole. Some have posted at rimfire central about the bolt and safety being a little stiff but a good cleaning and oiling is alll it took. So anyone wanting good feedback on the CZ-452 and it's great quality should go to rimfirecentral.com and read the 1000's of post.

 

[azrael]

Maybe it was a bad run...Happens all the time when you are dealing with machined parts....Endmill's chip and boring bar inserts are NOTORIOUS for chipping...My bud has a CZ chambered in .222 and loves it...I have fired it more than once and almost decided to buy one...I went with a Marlin .17 instead...Last gunshow I handled what I think was a 452 and now I wish I had bought one of those...

before I decided to get rich making custom holsters ...I was a machinist and I could tell ya horror stories about endmills and chatter

 

[Master Blaster]

The point of my post was not to dis the cz guns

I love my 452 Special, you cant beat $500 (compared to other .22lrs) quality for $239 I paid for mine.

I really wanted that american, but I cant buy a defective gun and then have to send it to CZ for repair. I thought about getting one through my club FFL his price would have been $60 less with the transfer, but if they sent what I saw yesterday at the gunshop, I would have had to insist that it be sent back to the wholesaler which would have cost me $25.


The point was to make people aware that some of the latest production may have a problem.

 

[Cosmoline]

I'm a big CZ fan, but I certainly appreciate warnings like this. I hope CZ takes measures to ensure these problems remain rare. All it takes is a few bad rifles showing up at the range and a co's reputation can fall way down. It's happened to most all of the American companies, and some of what may have been minor QC issues turn into urban legends of shoddy construction.