CZ Scorpion - this looks like fun.

[armoredman]

Just a few quick pics, haven't got it out to the range yet.



Some accessories, 30 round mag, NEBO light, and the SIG Brace Adapter - that is a two piece assembly and is HEAVY and tough, It could be used as a club dismounted. Yes, I moved the hand stop - experimenting.



Range time coming up.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

That's pretty awesome looking! I'm excited to hear how it shoots. I haven't seen them in any of my LGS's or even any of the big box stores out here. Did you have to order it or was it bought off the shelf?

 

[Fishbed77]

That's definitely next on my list as soon as CZ gets resolution as to how this will work with 922(r). Because I would never be happy with one if I couldn't SBR it (preferably with the SMG stock).

 

[Girodin]

I am waiting for two things:

1. Prices to come down after the initial buying rush

and

2. The ATF to give a parts count and to see what parts become available to work around 922r so I can SBR the thing.

Number two is the much more important consideration. Pistols like this only serve one rational purpose in my mind and that is to made into SBRs. Reports are the trigger is heavy at 8-9 pounds. Ideally I'd like to a high quality after market FCG become availabe. Something from geissele would be ideal. That would likely provide at least three compliance parts. Looking at the gun and what I think the parts count will be that along with a US made muzzle device (I want to run a suppressor anyways) probably would make it comply with 922r if a US made stock was used.

Until I can legally SBR it there is nothing particularly appealing about it to me. When I can I'll with all likelihood be all over one.

An added benefit of this gun could be that it might drive down the price on the MPX and certain MP5 clones (I'm thinking POF).

 

[Fishbed77]

Until I can legally SBR it there is nothing particularly appealing about it to me. When I can I'll with all likelihood be all over one

I couldn't agree more.

An added benefit of this gun could be that it might drive down the price on the MPX and certain MP5 clones (I'm thinking POF

Screw SIG and POF, as far as I'm concerned. The believe an EVO3 SBR will be superior to either of those designs, for many reasons.

 

[Girodin]

The believe an EVO3 SBR will be superior to either of those designs, for many reasons.

Such as? Seriously I'd like to hear them.

I have yet to get hands on an EVO so I cannot speak with any kind of real authority on the issue. However, on paper the fully locked short stroke piston action of the MPX would seem to offer some advantages over the blow back EVO. Some reviewers have reported that the CZ feels kind of big and clunky compared to sig and particularly an MP5. The CZ trigger is also said to be pretty heavy. The CZ also uses an odd thread pattern on the barrel which is mildly annoying and will require an adapter for use with a suppressor. On paper I like the keymod handguard of the sig more than the CZ's.

Where the CZ blows the sig out of the water is in

A) actually being available for sale as opposed to vaporware 2 years after being debuted
B) Price.
C) Price of mags.

I can't say as I don't have time with either the EVO or the MPX. Just comparing them on paper and listening to the chatter of those that have handled or shot them but the sig seems like it might be better on paper.

 

[Fishbed77]

Such as? Seriously I'd like to hear them.

It looks like you covered three main reasons in your own post. Add to that SIG's failing QC over the past few years (especially with respect to their long guns) and CZ's very good reputation, and there you have it.

 

[Girodin]

Cheaper doesn't mean better. It just means its cheaper. Now something can be a better value but even that doesn't mean its "better" in absolute terms. My sub 2000 is way cheaper than a converted USC, I wouldn't argue its "better" though. I don't think the price will fall enough but as I said one can hope the EVO (as well as some of the other PCCs that have come out) will lower the price of the MPX.

Add to that SIG's failing QC over the past few years (especially with respect to their long guns) and CZ's very good reputation, and there you have it.

We can only hope the MPX and MCX are significantly better in terms of quality than the 556 and 556r were at their debut. That is one reservation that I think it fair to have about the MPX.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Sweet! Were'd you find one? I didn't know they were for sale yet. I too want to hear the 922r story on the Scorpion before I plunk down my cash.

 

[bannockburn]

Definitely looks like a lot of fun!

 

[Baldman]

As a pistol I'll pass. As an SBR and a suppressor well that's another story, likley top of my wish list. As others said I'll sit back and wait to hear on the ATF decision.

 

[Fishbed77]

We can only hope the MPX and MCX are significantly better in terms of quality than the 556 and 556r were at their debut. That is one reservation that I think it fair to have about the MPX.

I don't expect them to be. Cohen's SIG has had multiple opportunities to prove they can produce a quality semi-automatic long gun (716, 556, 556R, 556xi), and they have failed on each one to provide a rifle that is better than the competition.

On the other hand, the EVO3 is a proven design.

To put it simply, if it doesn't work it doesn't work. And (based on precedence) I don't have any faith that the MPX will.

The fact that the EVO3 is reasonably priced is just icing on the cake.

 

[armoredman]

I have never had a pistol like this, so I really have no experience to compare it with to, say, AR pistols or the like. The trigger is a little heavy, but the pull is consistent throughout, so it didn't SEEM to pull the sights off in any way. The test target showed a 5 shot group slightly high and left at 25 meters, 38 MM across, (1.5 inch group), but I have no idea if I can replicate that!
I will be testing this thing with various types of ammo very soon, and seeing what it likes. I agree - SBR is definitely on my radar screen as soon as we get the definitive answer. Here are the two different magazine sizes.



The 30 round mags sold out in less than 10 hours when the first batch came in - I got 1% of that total shipment.
Just to really floor people - I am considering this for small animal and varmint hunting out here, too. Loaded right, I think almost all Arizona small game, (which is about all we HAVE down here in the bottom half of the state!), would fall to 9mm. Betcha didn't see THAT one coming, didja!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

It has a 7.5 inch barrel right? With that much tube, you should be able to take a javelin and such with little problem, at a reasonable distance. You know, I originally had no interest in these. I also had no interest in registering an SBR, but the more I look at them.......

As a pistol, I still don't think chopped rifles are too great. But with a stock, that thing would be darn fun, and a very effective HD weapon. I may have to rethink things.

Since the topic of SBRing it has come up, how difficult is the process? Is there a standard answer on the for purpose? I've never looked into it as the idea of registering any weapon is abhorrent to me.

 

[mdauben]

That's definitely next on my list as soon as CZ gets resolution as to how this will work with 922(r). Because I would never be happy with one if I couldn't SBR it (preferably with the SMG stock).

Gotta agree. SBR Scorpion is cool, pistol Scorpion... not so much.

 

[armoredman]

The last thing you should do is clean your new gun before you test fire it, right? I looked at the Scorpion and figured, well, this is a big piece of machinery, probably gonna be a chore...*sigh*, let's get started.

Then I read the instructions. Bolt back, charging handle locked to rear. Push pin out, pull trigger unit back and up.



OK, so NOW comes the hard part, right?

Reach in, push bolt back with thumb, lift out.



Ok, NOW comes the hard...I'm done? That's IT?

That's it.



Clean and reassemble. I did need to use the longer rifle rod to run a patch through the bore, now I know why they threw in a Bore Snake! I think this thing is easier to clean than anything else I own!
One small issue - I dropped the bolt on the carpet while cleaning it...and cat hair got on it. Tried to get it all off, but I'll bet the first few rounds smell like burnt cat hair...

 

[cslinger]

Now for sheer fun I totally get it.

That being said without turning this into a SBR a Glock 17 with 33 round magazines is way more useful even considering the ease of adding an optic to this.

But once again that this damn cool looking and probably lots of fun.

 

[Girodin]

I don't expect them to be. Cohen's SIG has had multiple opportunities to prove they can produce a quality semi-automatic long gun (716, 556, 556R, 556xi), and they have failed on each one to provide a rifle that is better than the competition.

I have no idea whether the MCX/MPX will be any good or not. I don't know that I'd dismiss them out of hand though. Kevin Brittingham a founder of ACC was hired by Sig and was involved in the design of these guns as I understand it.

The 556 series guns was an effort to cut corners and make a cheaper civilian version of a proven design.

Sig is ostensibly producing the MPX and MCX as LEO/Mil weapons. The MPX was designed to be a replacement for an aging fleet of MP5s the world over. The MCX was submitted as a candidate in the French bid for a new service weapon.

Now it is possible that the MPX/MCX will suffer QC issues. However, there is at least a reasonable basis to hope for better.

Unfortunately, even if the quality is there the price is on the high side.

 

[Mr.357Sig]

Sweet CZ. I hate you.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Cheaper doesn't mean better. It just means its cheaper. Now something can be a better value but even that doesn't mean its "better" in absolute terms. My sub 2000 is way cheaper than a converted USC, I wouldn't argue its "better" though. I don't think the price will fall enough but as I said one can hope the EVO (as well as some of the other PCCs that have come out) will lower the price of the MPX.

Of course, a simpler way to look at which gun is better is this: You can actually buy an EVO.

 

[007xd9]

I think CZ was way unlucky in the timing of the the release of this gun. Thanks ATF.