Czech 7.62X51 ammo?

[Kor]

Hey, all - I bought an 880-rd case of ammo at the Crossroads of the West(Ice House Arena) gun show in Phoenix, AZ yesterday, that purports to be Czech-made .308Win/7.62NATO. I have never heard of this ammo before, but for $85 I figured I'd take a chance on the case - 7.62NATO ammo for less than $.10/rd out the door is nothing to sneeze at, you know.

The ammo came in a OD green-painted wooden case secured with a steel packing strap, which contained a sardine-can-style tin sealed with lead solder(and which took 2 strong men, a boy and a crowbar to open). The can contains 44 unmarked green cardboard boxes, each containing 20 rounds. The ammo looks nice, with no tarnish and the primers sealed with a black lacquer-type sealant. The headstamp reads: VZ 69 7.62.

The markings on the crate are duplicated on the lid of the ammo tin, and are as follows:

880 156/69-ZV
7,62 - T65 tbpl/Ms
26kg
Netp 1,2 X 0,4/1,2 - KF nma 3/65

Just guessing, but the headstamp implies production in 1969, i.e. the height of the Cold War - which makes me wonder why on earth the Czechs would have been producing NATO-caliber ammo at the time(maybe for the international arms market, or under contract for some Third World country that used FAL's or G3's)?

So, can you guys shed some light on this stuff? Is there anything I NEED to know about it, like:

- Is it corrosive?
- Is it reloadable(Boxer-primed)?
- Is it too hot or too weak to shoot?
- Is it consistent and/or accurate?
- Is it machine-gun ammo? (Doubtful)
- Is it gonna beat my rifles to death?
- Are the bullets lead-core or steel-core?
- What is the bullet weight?
- Does it shoot dirty, or extract hard?
- And, most importantly, where can I get more of this ammo(assuming it's good stuff, which I will be testing this coming Sunday)?

Thanks for your help!

 

[k9]

there is alot of information about this ammo @ falfiles.con, do a search.
I think its crrosive.
I was at the show and purchased aussi 308
who was sell the ammo you purchased?

 

[Kor]

I got the Czech ammo from Firing Pin Enterprises - where did you get the Aussie 7.62NATO? I've also been interested in the Aussie ammo, but somehow I didn't spot it at that show...

Now that I've torn a round apart, here's some particulars:

- The bullet is a .308" 143-144gr FMJ-BT, lead-core, copper-washed steel-jacketed slug with a BIG crimping groove(it ain't some wussy li'l knurled cannelure, it's a GROOVE)
- The powder charge is 44.5-45.0gr(a little bit spilled) of an unknown extruded-type powder, with the grains cut short - this is not an unreasonable charge, assuming that this powder is similar to Accurate Arms XMR-4064 or XMR-2495, which both fit the physical description and I BELIEVE are both made in the Czech Republic.

BTW, the crimp is more like the Lee "Factory Crimp," where a collet presses the case mouth into the bullet perpendicular to the side of the case mouth, as opposed to being swaged by a tapered surface inside the die. This may bode well for the accuracy(i.e. no bullet distortion from crimping).

Now, on to the "nail-head test" for corrosive priming - which will take a few days...

 

[k9]

Miwall, $36. per 200 seemed a little hi in price.
I picked up 400rd to give it a try, I really like it.

 

[ElToro]

{and which took 2 strong men, a boy and a crowbar}

insert wise acre comments here...

 

[Kor]

You may laugh, but that's what was required - I used a crowbar that my buddy keeps in his trunk to pull the pull-tabs on the lid while he stood on top of the case to keep it down while I pulled - so, there's the two strong men and crowbar, right there. Even then, we had to get another friend(the boy) to stand on the other side of the case before I could break the lead-solder seal.

Obviously, there's a technique to it that I haven't learned or mastered...

 

[bbrins]

Isn't there usually some sort of can opener that comes with each case? I got one with the case I purchased. I just assumed that this stuff was corrosive and cleaned accordingly. It shoots good enough to pluck off clay pigeons at 100 yards out of an FR-8.

 

[Kor]

D'oh! There may have been one tucked into the crate, but I didn't see it - now I'll have to go look...

Glad to hear that it shoots well in your FR-8 - I've also got an FR-8 and a Ishapore 2A1 that should be quite happy to eat this ammo, which would mean more Portuguese and South African 7.62NATO for my FAL's and Garand...

The "nail-head test" has been performed(and boy, was there a lot of smoke and soot from just the primer alone!) - I've seen a little discoloration, but it doesn't look like corrosion. After it ripens for another day or two, we'll see what develops...

 

[Kor]

Well, the "nail-head test" DID show a SMALL amount of corrosion, so I'm prepared to declare this stuff as "mildly corrosive." It's dry enough here in AZ for most of the year that I'm not too worried about it, but I still plan to confine its use to the 7.62NATO bolt-guns, and ****** 'em well with Windex afterwards.

 

[Chugach]

OK, Kor, I'll bite. How did you conduct the "nail-head test"?

 

[Kor]

The "nail-head test" is pretty simple - take a common, mild carbon-steel nail and tap it into a block of wood so that it's just high enough to support an empty cartridge case from the inside. Then, use a file, Dremel tool or Scotchbrite pad to scour the head down to shiny, bare metal. Next, take a round of your suspect ammo, pull the bullet and dump the powder. Place the primed round on top of your nail, and set off the primer with a punch and hammer(Be sure to wear eye/ear protection when doing this). Let the nail sit for 2-3 days without cleaning it off, and see if it develops corrosion on its surface - if it does, your ammo is corrosive-primed.

You can also test for corrosive primers by firing the primed, empty cartridge case in your rifle at a piece of mild sheet steel like a filing-cabinet divider, but that requires you to clean the residue out of your barrel just in case the primers ARE corrosive.

 

[Chugach]

Thanks! I had this horrible image of a nail inside a cartridge inside a chamber. Knew that couldn't possibly be right from the knowledgeable comments in the thread...

 

[DMK]

...take a common, mild carbon-steel nail and tap it into a block of wood so that it's just high enough to support an empty cartridge case from the inside. Then, use a file, Dremel tool or Scotchbrite pad to scour the head down to shiny, bare metal....

Where I live, this is would start to rust on its own after just 1 day. I wouldn't even have to shoot the primer at it.

 

[Kor]

...Well, you're not gonna prove anything, either, if all the primer residue gets to do is sit on top of the nail-head's patina without having a chance to get at the bare metal. You also shouldn't leave the darned thing out in the elements, but keep it inside your home, i.e. the way you store your guns, so that the residue-d nail experiences the same environment as your guns.

By the way, here's what the FALFiles has to say about this ammo:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=39642&referrerid=11300

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread/php?threadid=22961&referrerid=11300

 

[Kor]

Well, the Czech 7.62NATO ammo shot just fine in the Ishapore 2A1, but I can't really comment on its accuracy until I get the front sight moved over to correct windage(I wasn't even on the paper).

BTW, a chap on AssaultWeb.net says that this ammo was produced by Sellier & Bellot before they were allowed to sell on the open market to other countries - which sounds quite logical, considering the country of origin, and the fact that the 20rd. boxes are just the right shade of green for S&B's packaging, but without any labeling.