DA Revolvers: 6 For Sure. Really?
- Thread starter 1911Tuner
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I've had way more stoppages with revolvers than with autos. Been shooting them both about equally for 40+ years. Most auto stoppages can be fixed with tap, rack, bang. Autos fly open with every shot, expelling residue that revovers retain to gum up the works! Most revolver stoppages required at least a screwdiver & hammer. Most of my revolver stoppages involved P & R Magnums from the Bangor Punta era of S&W. Seems like the recessed cylinder high pressure cartridges were the most problematic, & I totally gave up on getting a S&W 22 LR wheelgun to work, until I ran onto one of the first 63's. I might agree that standard pressure revolvers are pretty reliable, but only after going through them tightening & Loc-titing screws, nuts, & ejector rods. JMO, YMMV.
Not directly related, but I have long advocated that anyone carrying a gun make sure it will fire AT LEAST 200 rounds of the carry ammo WITHOUT ANY FAILURE, NO EXCUSES! If there is a failure, start the count over. For auto pistols, make that 200 rounds out of each carry magazine.
Some people will take me to task, saying that would cost too much money. If you are carrying a gun for serious reasons, how much is your life worth? (If you are carrying just for fun, my response is simple - don't carry a gun; you are not mature enough to be trusted with a deadly weapon.)
A gun you can't rely on is worse than no gun at all. Once you draw, you escalate the situation, and invite deadly force from your opponent. That is not a time when you want to hear "click".
Jim
Some people will take me to task, saying that would cost too much money. If you are carrying a gun for serious reasons, how much is your life worth? (If you are carrying just for fun, my response is simple - don't carry a gun; you are not mature enough to be trusted with a deadly weapon.)
A gun you can't rely on is worse than no gun at all. Once you draw, you escalate the situation, and invite deadly force from your opponent. That is not a time when you want to hear "click".
Jim
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Or...as in my case...bang-bang *click*
Anyway...It seems to have resolved itself. Don't know if it was the stickier grips or maybe a piece of grit in the works that fell out when I opened it up to check it out...but I'll shoot it more before I trust it. That's a given.
One thing I forgot to mention was that I was firing one-handed when it happened. It didn't do it when I grabbed it in both paws and clamped down hard...but that's not a consideration. A carry gun has to work regardless of whether I can get the right grip on it or not. If things get bad, I may not have the opportunity to do that.
Anyway...It seems to have resolved itself. Don't know if it was the stickier grips or maybe a piece of grit in the works that fell out when I opened it up to check it out...but I'll shoot it more before I trust it. That's a given.
One thing I forgot to mention was that I was firing one-handed when it happened. It didn't do it when I grabbed it in both paws and clamped down hard...but that's not a consideration. A carry gun has to work regardless of whether I can get the right grip on it or not. If things get bad, I may not have the opportunity to do that.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
I just had a thought.
This may qualify as a limp grip induced malfunction with a revolver.
Hooodathunkit...
This may qualify as a limp grip induced malfunction with a revolver.
Hooodathunkit...
oldfool
Member
"anyone carrying a gun make sure it will fire AT LEAST 200 rounds of the carry ammo WITHOUT ANY FAILURE"
couldn't agree more...
I like to start off with 300 rounds, with autoloaders preferably at least 100 rounds of three different brands/flavors to see how finicky it might be.. if all ok, will then settle down w/ whatever carry load of choice..
but it takes me 300 rounds with any new gun to see whether it's naturally a good "hitter" for me or not, personal fit and all that. I don't much believe in putting a whopping lot of range time into practicing with a gun that just doesn't "fit and hit" well for me right from the get go... some do, some don't, just me
"this may qualify as a limp grip induced malfunction with a revolver"
could be called such, but I doubt your grip has much of anything limp in it !
just a pretty hefty recoiling load for a m-13, and you can squeeze 'em only just so much
bolt spring is a tad "limp wristed", that's all
couldn't agree more...
I like to start off with 300 rounds, with autoloaders preferably at least 100 rounds of three different brands/flavors to see how finicky it might be.. if all ok, will then settle down w/ whatever carry load of choice..
but it takes me 300 rounds with any new gun to see whether it's naturally a good "hitter" for me or not, personal fit and all that. I don't much believe in putting a whopping lot of range time into practicing with a gun that just doesn't "fit and hit" well for me right from the get go... some do, some don't, just me
"this may qualify as a limp grip induced malfunction with a revolver"
could be called such, but I doubt your grip has much of anything limp in it !
just a pretty hefty recoiling load for a m-13, and you can squeeze 'em only just so much
bolt spring is a tad "limp wristed", that's all
As I pointed out earlier, cost-cutting changes can have unexpected consequences. Smith & Wesson revolvers used to tension the cylinder stop ("bolt" in Tuner-speak ) with a coil spring and plunger. With this arrangement a stronger spring could be put in place by simply removing one screw and making the switch. As it is, you can only replace the spring with an identical one. As the spring is now nested in a short hole in the cylinder stop and the available space reduces any options. :banghead:
) with a coil spring and plunger. With this arrangement a stronger spring could be put in place by simply removing one screw and making the switch. As it is, you can only replace the spring with an identical one. As the spring is now nested in a short hole in the cylinder stop and the available space reduces any options. :banghead:1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Yeah. I miss the old 5-screws.
easyg
Member
I still believe that revolvers are more reliable overall than autoloaders.
Every auto will eventually have a failure to feed or a failure to eject.
It's just the nature of the beast.
It's usually not the guns fault....usually it's the ammo or the magazine.
This is why every law enforcement and every military around the globe teaches clearing drills routinely.
Every auto will eventually have a failure to feed or a failure to eject.
It's just the nature of the beast.
It's usually not the guns fault....usually it's the ammo or the magazine.
This is why every law enforcement and every military around the globe teaches clearing drills routinely.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
My Model 13 never failed me, either...until the other day.
showmebob
Member
I've had one problem while shooting either my s-w 19 or sp101. That was when (using factory ammo) a primer backed out of the fired case and locked up the cylinder so the trigger couldn't be pulled or the hammer cocked manually. Not the guns fault for sure, just a problem with the new r-p ammo. Never had it happen again.
The only auto that never gave me a problem was a colt 1903 in 32acp. The others all have had their bad days.
The only auto that never gave me a problem was a colt 1903 in 32acp. The others all have had their bad days.
wheelgunslinger
Member
If you're reading along here, be sure and zero in on what Tuner wrote about what the problem was and what his solution was.
Like any good Victorian era clockwork doohickey, specific revolvers are made for specific loads (to last in the long term). It's not outlandish to suggest that high powered loads will beat one to death and cause odd or less common failures. Anyone who has screwed with heavy handloads in a wheelgun can tell you this.
It's part of the deal if you want to shoot those wrist breaker loads. Clean, check tolerances and function, fix where needed, and reassemble.
Revolvers are machines. Sometimes they break.
Like any good Victorian era clockwork doohickey, specific revolvers are made for specific loads (to last in the long term). It's not outlandish to suggest that high powered loads will beat one to death and cause odd or less common failures. Anyone who has screwed with heavy handloads in a wheelgun can tell you this.
It's part of the deal if you want to shoot those wrist breaker loads. Clean, check tolerances and function, fix where needed, and reassemble.
Revolvers are machines. Sometimes they break.
Fishslayer
Member
I've had some malfs with my wheelguns. Usually to do with crud from my handloads. Unburnt 2400 under the extractor, etc. Usually a binding problem as opposed to "the gun is now a club" hard failure.
They sit bedside freshly cleaned & oiled. I would bet my life I have at least "six for sure." Undoubtedly more as I use commercial ammo for HD.
They sit bedside freshly cleaned & oiled. I would bet my life I have at least "six for sure." Undoubtedly more as I use commercial ammo for HD.
Deaf Smith
Member
1911T,
Any weapon you pack for serious use MUST BE TESTED. Don't matter if it's a wheelgun or self-shucker.
With revolvers I fire the loads I intend to use and know their POA and how reliable they are I still always. I then, after cleaning, put in fresh ammo and then pull the trigger just a bit and rotate the cylinder. This shows me if there is any cylinder drag (from such as high primers, dirt under the extractor, overlong case, etc..)
And after that I'm durn near 100 percent positive it will go bang for all the shots they carry.
Can't do that kind of thing with any simi-auto. I can inspect the ammo but not actually cycle it without the risk of damaging the ammo in a simi-auto.
That is why I stick with my Glock subcompacts 26 and 26, and Smith J frame .38s. I've tested these so much and they are good to go.
Deaf
Any weapon you pack for serious use MUST BE TESTED. Don't matter if it's a wheelgun or self-shucker.
With revolvers I fire the loads I intend to use and know their POA and how reliable they are I still always. I then, after cleaning, put in fresh ammo and then pull the trigger just a bit and rotate the cylinder. This shows me if there is any cylinder drag (from such as high primers, dirt under the extractor, overlong case, etc..)
And after that I'm durn near 100 percent positive it will go bang for all the shots they carry.
Can't do that kind of thing with any simi-auto. I can inspect the ammo but not actually cycle it without the risk of damaging the ammo in a simi-auto.
That is why I stick with my Glock subcompacts 26 and 26, and Smith J frame .38s. I've tested these so much and they are good to go.
Deaf
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
That's the thing, Deaf...It had been tested and passed with flying colors...about 25 years ago. In the interim, I shot it peroidically for verification but it normally was cleaned and went back into the safe. I recently started carrying it again, and just decided to shoot it when I was actually at the range to shoot other guns.
An inspection for dirt/grit in the lockwork was done, and the gun retested the next day. No problems. I'll replace the spring just for insurance.
An inspection for dirt/grit in the lockwork was done, and the gun retested the next day. No problems. I'll replace the spring just for insurance.
Deaf Smith
Member
Well that's the lesson 1911, after 25 years test it again before you pack it.
In a way you did just that and found the flaw.
Deaf
In a way you did just that and found the flaw.
Deaf
Smith357
Member
Did you pop the plate strip down the action and clean out that crusty 25 year old oil residue? You would strip and clean a 1911 or an AR that sat for 25 years before you shot it.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Ya'll are jumpin' to some wild conclusions here. I never said that I didn't shoot the gun for 25 years or didn't open it up for inspection and cleaning during the whole time. I shot it a few times a year and did remove the plate and clean it out. I've also carried it quite a bit over that time. If you could see it...
My habit for a gun that I want to carry, and that's sat idle for a year or more is to go shoot it a few times, then strip it down to inspect, clean, and oil it. I did that with this one when I started carrying it about 3 months ago. When it went with me to the range, I hadn't intended to shoot it. I almost never shoot the gun that goes along as a carry piece. It was a spur of the moment decision to shoot it...just for giggles.
So, yes. The gun was clean and oiled.
My habit for a gun that I want to carry, and that's sat idle for a year or more is to go shoot it a few times, then strip it down to inspect, clean, and oil it. I did that with this one when I started carrying it about 3 months ago. When it went with me to the range, I hadn't intended to shoot it. I almost never shoot the gun that goes along as a carry piece. It was a spur of the moment decision to shoot it...just for giggles.
So, yes. The gun was clean and oiled.
wheelgunslinger
Member
yeah, it seemed obvious it was not a crud issue.
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