Dang - I broke my new-to-me 870

[rbernie]

I picked up a lightly used and clean-looking 870 Magnum Express last week. Yesterday, I took it to the range and used their clay throwers to help put 75 cheap Remmie ShurShot Heavy Dove shells thru it. Sadly, right as I was finishing up, the shell release stopped releasing. This effectively trapped the rounds left in the mag and rendered the shotgun a single-shot.

On the way home, I took it back to the gunshop from which I bought it and we'll hear next week what the gunsmith has to say. I enjoyed shooting it, but I'm more than a bit bummed that I broke it.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Sorry to hear this and a trifle surprised. Let us know what the smith says....

 

[Der Verge]

Wow, a broken 870?

I have never heard of that before........what is the world comming to?

 

[Packman]

Didn't by any chance get something stuck in behind there, did you? That might not let the shells release. Did you try pushing the release sideways by hand?

That's a bummer. Good luck with it!

 

[MAX100]

I just want to clear this up, it wasn't your fought that it broke. It sounds like a pretty common problem that the 870 design has and very easy to fix.



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[Packman]

I just want to clear this up, it wasn't your fought that it broke. It sounds like a pretty common problem that the 870 design has and very easy to fix.

So what's wrong with it and how does he fix it?

 

[Fred Fuller]

Odd that it's such a 'common problem'. There's been a lot of 870s through here over the years, and it isn't an issue I've ever seen before.

I'm interested in knowing what the diagnosis is also...

lpl/nc

 

[Dave McCracken]

Gee that explains why I haven't won the Lottery yet. All my good luck has gone to getting 870s that do not have a "Common Problem"....

 

[rbernie]

FYI - I have not yet heard from the gunsmith; they're not open on Mondays.

I suspect that there is something stuck behind the release bar thingee on the left side of the receiver; it would not retract into its recess in the receiver wall even under significant pressure. It looked to be 'out of the track', so to speak.

Of course, I have no real understanding of the 870 lockwork so I do not know how it's actuated. I am presuming that the shell stop arm thingee is either a rocker with a fulcrum in the receiver wall, or that it's set up like a leaf spring that is pinned in the back and something in the elevator gizmo is supposed to push the front stop arm out of the way.

Whatever is supposed to happen to move the front of the stop arm out of the way, wasn't.

 

[ImARugerFan]

I got a used 870 that had the leaf spring part (I don't know it's name or function) on the left side of the inside of the receiver replaced. It had to be pinned from the outside of the receiver. It seems to work find, I just have an extra pin on the side of my gun, maybe that's how I got it for $175 :-D

 

[Scoupe]

I got a used 870 that had the leaf spring part (I don't know it's name or function) on the left side of the inside of the receiver replaced. It had to be pinned from the outside of the receiver. It seems to work find, I just have an extra pin on the side of my gun, maybe that's how I got it for $175 :-D

I believe you're referring to the shell latch. That piece is simply re-staked with a simple little tool, or even judicious use of a hammer and punch. No need to add a pin. Re-staking isn't even necessary for proper function, but getting the latch to stay in place when reassembling the gun is a PIA - which reminds me, I need to get my staking tool back from a buddy...

 

[ImARugerFan]

Could be, I'm not sure and don't have any pictures handy. Perhaps it was done by somebody who didn't know what they were doing, or perhaps it's a different part. Either way it seems to work fine, so I'm not too upset about it.

 

[Fred Fuller]

rbernie,

870s have two spring steel shell latches or shell stops, one on the left side of the receiver and one on the right, staked into recesses machined into the side of the receiver. The shell latches are actuated by wedges machined into the action bars as the forearm is pumped to the rear. If your 870 has a field length forearm, the left wedge is hidden under the forearm extension- it's visible on guns with police length forearms. The right action bar wedge is visible about half an inch in front of the receiver.

With the forearm forward all the way, the shell latch on the left side of the receiver retains whatever shells are in the magazine tube. When the forearm is retracted and the bolt goes to the rear, the left action bar actuates the left shell stop and releases any waiting shell onto the lifter.

Moving the forearm forward simultaneously raises the lifter and the shell it carries, chambers the shell as the bolt closes and allows the right action bar to trip the right shell latch, releasing the next shell (if there is one) in the magazine in turn to be caught on the left shell latch and held in place ready for the next cycle.

It's a two step interrupted feeding process, the right shell latch releases a shell onto the left shell latch, and then stops the next shell coming out of the magazine when the left shell stop releases, so the gun doesn't double feed from the magazine. Then the left shell latch releases the shell onto the lifter as the action cycles.

If you make two fists with index fingers extended parallel and knuckles placed together, you can more easily visualize the action of the shell latches. Just move your index fingers back and forth in the order of the steps described above, and visualize shells passing between your fingers one at a time, as your fingertips swing aside to clear the path. Cycling the action on the empty gun while looking at the individual action bars through the loading port will allow you to see their operation.

hth,

lpl/nc

 

[MAX100]

Sorry guys! I know saying anything negative about the 870 around here is a No No.

The shell latch not releasing a shell is a common problem with the 870. On some it could be the spring, follower or mag tube ext but a lot of the time one or both needs replacing or restaked, more so with older guns.

The original owner probably got rid of it because he was having the same problem with it.



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[Fred Fuller]

The shell latch not releasing a shell is a common problem with the 870

To which I can only say: It is not my usual nature to be directly contradictory, even less so here on THR, so I will only go so far as to attest that in my experience, shell latches are not a problem at all on the vast majority of 870s. There are a couple of sets of spare shell latches in my parts box. I have yet to find it necessary to use one or the other (that is, left or right shell latch) in any 870 I have handled so far. It can happen that foreign material can accumulate in the recess behind a shell latch and prevent it from functioning normally, on rare occasions shell latches can break, the action bar(s) can get bent or worn and not actuate the shell latch properly, or other mishaps can take place. But this is the exception and not "common" in any sense of the word, in my experience.

Of course, my experience is not universal, OPMMV (other peoples' mileage may vary).

lpl/nc

 

[lefteye]

Perfect explanation:

"870s have two spring steel shell latches or shell stops, one on the left . . . "

I, too, have never experienced a problem with either shell latch on an 870, though I have been shooting them for nearly 40 years and currently have 5 of them. But, it is certainly possible for a very small and firm obstruction to prevent the spring steel latch from depressing when the action is pumped.

 

[rbernie]

The shell latches are actuated by wedges machined into the action bars as the forearm is pumped to the rear.

Most excellent explanation - thanks, Lee.

But, it is certainly possible for a very small and firm obstruction to prevent the spring steel latch from depressing when the action is pumped.

If the shell latches do not depress, why would that not block or baulk the movement of the action bars?

In my failure, the forearm would move fore/aft as expected and the elevator thingee would flap up and down as expected, but the shell would never be released.

Oh, and I misspoke. I am picturing the action in my head and it was the right side shell latch that would not depress into its recess.

 

[et45]

Have you ever seen a 50 ft. shark? Doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[Dave McCracken]

et45, I've not seen either a 50 foot shark nor a broken shell latch on an 870.

However, I've just shy of a half century of experience with the 870. I've used them in about every way one can. Lifetime shell count is nigh six figures.

Anyone can have an opinion. Only informed opinions are worth having, though.

 

[MAX100]

I didn't say broken. How about worn, out of spec, needs to be restaked and or replaced. How many have you seen that are loose causing FTF problems and need to be restaked & FTE problems because shells stick in the chamber.

I have seen a few myself and these problems come up on other forums at least twice a month.

Here is one if anyone wants to read it and I can provide more.

AR10Fn Wrote:

Well I'm sorry to put a negative note on all the positive things said about the Wingmaster - but - I have a old Wingmaster (inherited it from my dad) . It is not even suppose to shoot 3 in. shells. The problem is the feed paws will not release the fresh shell to reload the shotgun, does not happen every time I fire it but often enough - jams about 3 times every box of 25. the paw on the oppsite side of the ejection port seems to ride up out it's channel and stick there stopping the fresh cartridge from moving out of the magazine on to the feed ramp. this thing is really stuck too, really have to work at it to return it to it's position.
would really like to fix it, enjoy shooting skeet with it, has really good wood and bluing, Also it has lots of semential value to me, any ideas welcome. Thanks AR10Fn

simmonsguns Wrote: Who is an excellent shotgun Smith.

feeding problems are,left and right shell latch's,and or the slide arm(forend tube assembly). check to see if it is a 20ga. built on a 12ga. receiver or the dedicated 20ga. on 20ga. set up. if you need help on how to remove the latches and restake them i can send you the Remington field shop page on this.there is a special tool and some delicate hammer work with this but its not that tough. it is easer to replace these parts than try to make them work again.


Here is the link:
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=8929

It is not a bad idea to have at staking tool on hand if anyone owns a few 870 shotguns

Brownells carries the tool $32 not a huge investment.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/st...e=REMINGTON 870/1100 SHELL LATCH STAKING TOOL


The 870 is a great shotgun but it is not the perfect shotgun. It does have it's problems like other shotguns.



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[Virginian]

I'd still like to hear what the diagnosis was on THIS gun.
Worn shell latches or action bars can cause a problem. I have seen this with my own eyes. On one 1950s vintage heavily used 870 Trap Gun a couple of years ago. If that makes it common, I give up.
Even if they fell out, if the shell latches are replaced in the correct position and the trigger group is in place and the pins are through the receiver, everything will function as it should because everything is in the correct position. Nothing has to be staked. It do make it easier to put back together.
The ejector and spring are riveted through the sidewall of the receiver on the left side, and if any of that has to be replaced the gun usually needs the receiver refinished for it not to show. I have also seen one broken ejector spring and saw another one replaced to go from 2-3/4" to 3" operation, so this is surely a very common issue.
One other thing that may also be common, having seen a lot of people "in action" as it were. One day I saw a guy at the range field strip his 870. Don't know why. He dropped the forend with the action sleeve and bars attached and made a mad grab to catch it, and instead made a great job of stomping it. Bent the bars bad. Straightened them on the edge of a picnic table and reassembled the gun. Had all types of problems when he tried to shoot it, and appropriately enough, cussed the gun unmercifully.
Good golly, I am getting forgetful in my old age. I have seen 3 870s with feeding problems, which, upon examination, appeared to have at least 2 generations of genuine swamp mud packed and dried up behind the shell latches. Probably many more with this malady.

 

[Okiecruffler]

Have you ever seen a 50 ft. shark? Doesn't mean they don't exist.

Don't make them common either. I'm sure any part can break, I had a crane break on a ruger once and I've been told that was damned near impossible. But even tho I did it, I'd be surprised to ever see another.

 

[rbernie]

But, it is certainly possible for a very small and firm obstruction to prevent the spring steel latch from depressing when the action is pumped.

Heard back from the gunsmith. This appears to be the issue, and a simple R&R has things back in working order. When I pick it up, I'll have him show me how he cleared it up such that I can do that if the need ever arises again.

 

[MAX100]

Good Deal! Thanks for letting us know. Sometimes FTF problems can be fix by a simple cleaning.


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[rbernie]

Well, when I got to the shop I got so busy buying a 20ga Win 1400 ($175) that I forgot to ask the gunsmith to show me how to break the 870 down for cleaning and R&R. So I took it home and just started taking things apart, so I could figure out how to do it myself.

Ye gods, what a simple and user-friendly design. All of the complexity is in the modular and self-contained FCG; there are precious few moving parts outside of the FCG and they're all big and keyed for dang-near blindfolded disassembly. Even a first-time disassembly can be readily reversed with no prior memory of how it came apart.

So now it's all apart and put back together and lubed up and wiped down and all that jazz.

I'm likin' this.