David Marshall Williams

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FloatingChamber

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Wall Heath, West Midlands, United Kingdom
Let's have a discussion. I'm new, aged 59 yrs. About to buy a Model 59 and think I know just about all there is to know about the great man! Have had converstaions with close members of his family, Ross Beard, Jr. (author) and Martin Hill. Let's go. My name is Alan.
 
Sorry Guys, I forgot to tell you I'm a Limey and live in the West Midlands of the UK. I am a keen clayshooter, even though I'm nearly 60. I have been reloading shotshells since 1962. The '59 I am buying from my friend has the chokes, key, original pouch and instructions. I am paying £350 ($630) Is that good?
Regards, Alan.
 
"Carbine " 'Marsh' Williams. Was a good gun designer, most famous of course for the M-1 Carbine he thought up while serving a stretch. Win used him and he did the short recoil model 50 and 59 design. He had nothing to do with the 59 fiberglass barrel design I think.
He was NOT a John Moses Browning, and the model 50 and 59 were not a , er, Lasting Tribute to his genuis like the Blessed JMB's many examples.
I have a Win. M-1 -nice handy gun , I had a Win 59 30 years ago, and it was a good close rising bird gun-IF kept scrupiosly clean.:)
 
Welcome aboard. Williams had a number of firearms patents, including one for a auto shotgun where the barrel recoiled forward.

The old shiner was a natural mechanic. He handfiled parts out of scrap and never used a schematic.
 
Folks, nice to hear from you and to get the warm welcome!
I first became interested in 'Carbine' and his inventions circa 1967 when the movie was screened (only once) on British television. It was a 38 year wait before I got to see it again - I bought a dodgy copy on DVD from Canada! (Hollywood took some liberties! e.g. Jimmy Stewart filing the piston on an M1 Carbine barrel nearly twenty years before it was invented!)
By far the best film footage, where Mr. Williams describes and demonstrates some of his inventions, is to be found on the following DVD:
'In the Sights of a Weapons Genius: CARBINE WILLIAMS' MVI Productions 3113 Airlie St., Charlotte, NC (of course!) 28205
Tel: 1 - 800 - 289 - 0111
The black and white (1962)/ colour footage (1967) shows Mr. Williams describing and firing:

1. The 'reed' wooden pistol
2. The colt 'Ace' .22
3. The 'big' .30-06 version of the M1 Carbine design
4. The famous 'Remington Model 8' pattern .35 cal (and it jammed)
5. The Model 50 shotgun
6. The M1 (M2) on fully auto
7. The 2000 round/min 0.22 machine gun
8. The 'blow forward' rifle
...more to come in a few mins when I have a few questions!
Regards from UK, Alan.
 
Hi again!

In my conversations with various authors and members of his family, I have learned a great deal about Mr. Williams. I also have, without sounding too pompous, acquired a fair amount of knowledge of firearms and ammunition during my 45 years of shooting - and I am still learning!
Examples: I designed and loaded the first (test shells) 0.410. 28 gauge, 12 gauge 'Pigeon Special' and 53 gram 12 gauge Magnum shells for Lyalvale, UK, in the kitchen of my home! (big head!!!)

My question folks:

You all know about 'excessive headspace' - OK?.
Could the young Marshall Williams, who was always tinkering about with guns and ammunition, have experienced the violent kick of an arm with excessive headspace? And, later on, during his 'contract' at Caledonia Prison Farm, come up with the idea of harnessing this 'energy'?
Comments please.
Regards from UK.
Alan.
 
The 'famous' Model 8 Rem was invented by JMB:D

I didn't realize the Ace floating Chamber was invented by Marsh- that is a real tribute!:)

Also the M-1 carbine is a gas piston operated weapon and has nothing to do with floating chamber design.Maybe a shell blew out gas from excessive head space and let him think about all that gas pressure available!
 
Gordon, YES, the Remington Model 8 with its recoiling barrel was the invention of JMB, BUT, the 'FAMOUS' Remington .35 to which I refer was the hand-crafted 'lookalike' that Mr. Williams made from scratch. The barrel and moveable chamber were made from Ford auto parts.(crankshaft!) He chose this 'design' so that he could work on his invention without too much suspicion from the guards - why? Because he was forever repairing prison weapons. The receiver is the spittin' image of a Rem Mod. 8. His famous gun was fired by Jimmy Stewart in the movie. It is on permanent display at the museum in Raleigh, NC. It was also his way of demonstrating that he had invented a semi-auto rifle that functioned with a fixed barrel. From this model, pistols, rifles (Rem Model 550A) shotguns and machine guns were made on the same principle.
Regards, Alan.
 
Gordon, I never said the M1 had a floating chamber! It has a short-stroke piston which moves a tenth of an inch and imparts a kick to the slide. All of Mr. Williams' inventions work on a movement of a tenth of an inch or less - to get that 'strong kick'. I refer to excessive headspace because the movement of the 'loose' cartridge case in the chamber would act in the same way as a floating chamber, striking the breech face - but with no slide and bolt to operate, the energy would be transferred through the weapon to the shoulder and felt! I just wonder whether this may have given him the idea!
Regards,
Alan.
 
BUY IT!!!!!!!

The model 59 is the finest shotgun winchester ever made. It is the epitome of what an upland game gun should be.
 
Carbine Williams

Well! This 'discussion' seems to have run out of powder!:eek:

Just how many (or how few) of you oldies/young guns out there have seen film footage of Carbine Williams describing and demonstrating his inventions?
I asked an American shooter (living here in England) if he knew of Carbine Williams; his answer, "Never heard of him", surprised me. (But he did say he was from Cleveland!)
Question: Do many of you care a jot about the development of firearms?
 
Saw the movie with Jimmy Stewart as a child, saw the footage much later on The History Channel.

Williams was one of a number of American inventors who fit no mold. Edison was another.

I do care a jot....
 
I lost me a bet a couple of months back over Mr. Williams.

My buddy said that Jimmy Stewart played him in the movie and I said Gary Cooper.

Cost me a Coka Cola.
 
David Marshall 'Carbine' Williams

I am looking for personal memories from some of you 'oldies' who owned or used a Remington 550 0.22 Autoloader.

The 'Power Piston' (or floating chamber) that enables it to handle .22 short, .22 long and .22 long rifle was the brainchild of the subject of this thread.

Did you know that: The original prototype of this rifle was completed in thirteen days and that Mr. Williams called it 'The George Washington Rifle' - as the completion day happened to be Washington's birthday.

And:

-on the test firing that day, the rifle fired, ejected the spent case, fed a fresh round, ejected this one and fed another till the magazine was emptied. Such was and is the power of a floating chamber. The rifle was soon modified to stop it rebounding. It was introduced in 1941 with a tubular magazine capable of firing the three types of .22 ammunition intermixed in the magazine. You know the rest! Tell me your memories!

More interesting bits if want them!
 
Confed, (I'm a Robert E. Lee man)
Guess what? Mine is signed too! Moreso, I chat with 'REB' by telephone and we e-mail. He has some great stories about Carbine! He was one of the very few, outside the family, that Mr. Williams trusted.
Regards from the UK
Alan.
 
Small Arms Reivew has run a couple of articles on Carbine Williams.
One was about six months ago, IIRC.
The other was farther back.
Captain Monty Mendenhall wrote the most recent piece.

I believe the magazine has back issues available.
 
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