Dealing with .45 ACP Recoil

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I jumped like a scared rabbit the first time I ever shot a .45. My best friend let me shoot his 1911.. When he saw me jump and darn near drop the gun, he gave me the best advice I ever got about shooting.

"it's gonna make a lot of noise ya pansy. If you drop my gun, I'll pick it up and beat you to death with it.". Jeff Cooper never met anybody like Rhett. He was 6ft 4in and played rugby. I have NEVER flinched again since that day! Well, there was one time, but it was fraternity initiation and had nothing to do with gunfire. LOL
 
In most cases I really dont think flinch has anything to do with courage. I am not scared of the gun by any means, but I developed the habit of breaking down my wrist to fight the recoil. Telling someone to "man up" at a 70+ decibel blast acompanied by a small fireball blowing up in front of someone seems counterintuitive to me.
I was always someone to flinch or avoid being punched during high school testosterone games too though. guess I should go back to the pansy 9mm, huh? At least I never came home with a bloddy nose though.
 
Is this a bad time to tell you that I weight in at 195 pounds ... 70 inches and the last three years I have been beaten into shape by a Ranger 1SG?

There is a lot of technique involved. Yes. there is a lot of strength involved as well, but what I am saying is that maybe simply telling someone to "man up" is not always the key to success?
 
You have to have the strength to overcome that flip or you will forever be missing your target.
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False. You may shoot more slowly as you take time to recover from the recoil but since recoil happens AFTER the shot goes off it only affects accuracy if you are flinching/anticipating recoil
 
I think body size/weight/build/hand size of shooters will influence how pistol recoil is managed, but proper technique trumps that factor. There are many female shooters who competently shoot larger caliber pistols using proper techniques, so I would not say body size would be the primary factor in managing recoil.

Nushif said:
There is a lot of technique involved. Yes. there is a lot of strength involved as well, but what I am saying is that maybe simply telling someone to "man up" is not always the key to success?
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Yes. One range officer who taught SWAT/PD/SD would demonstrate this, often for new female shooters, by holding 1911/G22 with just the thumb/3rd finger grip with 4th/5th fingers off the grip and accurately hitting the target. Surprisingly, pistol would not flip off his shooting hand. He had us practice shooting the same way with our pistols and even I was skeptical but was convinced afterwards.

He stated 4th/5th fingers are not needed to fire the pistol and control recoil (that's the job of the recoil spring/slide/frame/arm/shoulder). 4th/5th fingers simply provide added support.

What I outlined in post #53 is for match shooting to reduce the time it takes to perform the follow up shot (double tap) and to engage the next target, but it also has real life tactical applications to manage recoil in the way of point shooting at close range out to about 10-15 yards. We would practice this point shooting technique and test by removing our front sights on Glocks and re-running the match stages and engaging close range targets (5-15 yards).
 
YouTube search of Gunsite Il Ling. Sound advice from a professional who teaches at Gunsite, carries a 1911 and is a woman that Nushif outweighs by a solid 70 lbs.

Also the first woman to have killed a cape buffalo with a handgun. That involved a slightly larger caliber.

Technique.
 
Good shooting and bad shooting are both ingrained into muscle memory by habit.

BUY A .22, and shoot and shoot and shoot until you're damned good, which you soon will be because the recoil isn't there to throw you off. Then pick up the .45 again and prepare to be amazed at how well you shoot.

Both the Buckmark and the Ruger 22/45 have the same grip angle, size and controls as a 1911 and make perfect trainers.

When you eventually do pick up the .45 again, don't crush the gun in a death grip expecting mayhem, just hold it in the same manner as you held the .22 and let fly. You'll get the same results as you got with the .22 - the slugs will land where you aim the gun. The only difference will be that they make more noise getting there.
 
One thing to try is to squeeze the trigger very slowly so that when the gun goes off it takes you by surprise. The rest is up to concentration and practice.
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After putting thousands of rounds downrange, I still catch myself developing a flinch from time to time. I usually catch it quickly and the slow, smooth trigger pull helps overcome it every time. The gun fires by surprise while I'm still holding the sights on target.
 
Quit trying to tell when the pistol is gonna go off!! As someone else mentioned before don't stage the trigger...steady pull straight through till it fires....Double Hearing Protection, ear plugs and muffs. If you have a flinch shooting a .45 you will have a flinch shooting a .22 as well.

It's cheaper to cure the flinch with a .22 than a .45, shoot often and always with double hearing. Try shooting with the opposite hand, concentrate on the front sight not when the gun will go off. Let the gun flip! It won't jump out of your hand...absorb the recoil with your slightly bent elbows. Try shooting a large caliber Ruger S/A....the recoil will roll up in your hand...let it. Try shooting one handed.

Hope some of these techniques work for you....let the recoil happen you can't stop it!
 
Jeff56 said:
she would lose her grip the first time and be forever afraid to try it again. And she wouldn't be accurate no matter what techniques she learned before that first shot. I totally disagree that shooting a weapon with a big muzzle flip will not affect accuracy.
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You mean like this:
elaine.gif

She was very accurate, because everything happened before the recoil/muzzle flip started...maybe it was just good instruction...and didn't have any problems keeping up during the three day class.

Yes, I realize that she has too much finger on the trigger of the 239, her elbows are locked, her grip is a bit low and she's using too much thumb...we were working on it
 
For one thing she would never fire a large caliber weapon twice because she would lose her grip the first time and be forever afraid to try it again. And she wouldn't be accurate no matter what techniques she learned before that first shot.
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Then she isn't using good technique. Recoil/muzzle flip/recovery happen after the shot.
 
Something I've told new shooters or those with a bad flinch that I've been shooting with is to "Never fight the recoil. The gun will win every time and all you'll get is targets that look like you threw handfuls of pebbles at them."

The idea is to contain the gun in a suportive but not overly tense grip without actually try to fight the recoil. If you try to fight it then inevitably you'll end up anticipating the recoil. And the other name for such anticipation is "flinch". And the best way I've found, and others agree with me, is the drills that detach your thinking from the blast and recoil by concentrating on the trigger pull and sight picture like I described in my last post.
 
You isn't using good technique either. You can't make a turtle fly no matter how hard you try. If you don't have the strength you do not have the strength. It's not that she's a particular weak person. She just happens to have thin arms. I could go into all sorts of things here but I'm not. I'm dropping this subject because clearly your mind is made up and since I know everything, you're wrong.

Stance mechanics are incredibly simple to understand. It doesn't take a rocket scientist. That doesn't mean it's possible for everyone. I'm guessing that even you have your limits Warp or do you think you can fire Anzio Annie from the hip and keep the muzzle flip to a minimum?
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You are not comprehending what I am saying. Muzzle flip happens after the shot. Once the shot is away it is going where it is going. The gun can recoil up and smack you in the forehead because of your size/strength/grip, that doesn't mean the bullet curves in midair and goes somewhere else, it just means that the term follow up shot is no longer in your vocabulary and, most importantly, it means you will probably finch from now on, thus missing, which brings us back to faulty technique
 
I've been doing the same thing. Starting with the S&W Target pistol and working my way up through at least 6 of my handguns. I've decided to save my new CZ Phantom for last. It kinda takes the fun out of the others a bit if I shoot it too early in the cycle. But the Kimber .45acp was always the last pistol out of the bag. If I fired it first, the groups were larger and the recoil was more noticeable. The same thing happens with the revolvers. The one exception is when I fire my Glock 23, it's the only one I take with me.
 
I stated earlier that practice will correct the problem, but many people seem to disagree. Let me clarify. I understand that practicing with a faulty technique will only serve to reinforce that faulty technique. If you have bad habits, get some help. If you are simply nervous about the recoil, however, more rounds downrange should cure the flinch. The first time I shot a .44 magnum, I flinched way before the hammer fell. After several rounds, however, I realized it wasn't as bad as everyone likes to hype it up to be and the flinch subsided. So I agree, don't reinforce bad habits by repeating them over and over, but get used to the feel of the gun and eventually the fear of recoil will go away.
 
...but I developed the habit of breaking down my wrist to fight the recoil.
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Yeah, that's a pretty bad habit for sure. When shooting at speed, hot rock shooters will "time the gun" in such a fashion that the sights return to the point of aim after the pistol lifts in recoil. If one could magically insert a dummy round into the magazine during a sub two second Bill Drill, the pistol would dip after the hammer fell on the dud round, but that should not be confused with the traditional "flinch". No matter what, the basic shooting platform shouldn't change and the bio-mechanics of the grip needs to remain intact. There is light at the end of the tunnel. You developed the habit and now that you know the problem, you can fix it with time and practice.
 
Went from a full size 1911 in .45 to a Commander in 9mm.

Currently having a Commander in .45 built.

Time will tell if I can handle it effectively enough for SD carry.
 
There's some element in all this I'm missing, and as a former instructor I should know what it is but I still don't get it.

My wife doesn't have a lot of upper body strength and has small, thin hands. Her favorite handgun is a full size Government Model in 45 ACP. She even went to Gunsite when it belonged to Jeff Cooper and came home with an Expert Certificate.

My older sister started with a 1991 Combat Commander. She liked it for shooting but found it too heavy to carry in her purse. She has carried a Glock 19 for a number of years but always told me she wished she had a 45 instead of the 9. A couple weeks ago we were at the range and I asked her if she wanted to try the used Glock 36 I had recently acquired. She jumped at the chance and after 50 rounds of my reloads and a couple magazines of carry ammo she said she wanted one. Since it was an extra gun for me (I have other carry guns) I gave it to her. She is delighted with it and doesn't mind the recoil one bit. And by the way, she will be 71 this December.

Dave
 
You can't prevent recoil with a non-compensated gun, but you can manage it. The trick is to manage it consistently. With the proper technique, it's not that hard.
 
I don't understand the recoil problem with a 45 acp.
IMHO the 45 acp has little recoil compared to many other cal.
I have been shooting the 45 acp for over 30 years and I do not find it much of a kicker.
I think the 40 S&W is a very heavy kicker compared to the 45acp.
The action of a 45acp is slow and steady. The 40S&W is fast and sharp.
I know of many who traded for a 9mm as they think that it is easy to handle. A 357 mag in a J-frame is a recoil problem.
IMHO I think a 9mm in a full sized gun is a cake bake to shoot. Some of the smaller 9mm can be a hand full.
The OP may need to go with a 1911 in a 9mm to help with the problem with recoil.
 
The role of strength in recoil control is often downplayed by well-meaning coaches. (It's a problem which experienced shooters don't tend to have unless they are recovering from a long illness, etc.) Nonetheless the evidence is out there in bits of testimony here and there. For instance champion shooter Julie Goloski is ideally positioned to provide some very interesting insights into the role of strength in successful shooting:

http://www.idpa.com/tj.asp?ID=177

Or there's the difference between Todd Jarrett's first shot in this video, and the following shots. Clearly Mr. Jarrett has the technique, but the first shot tells him that this flippy little gun needs a firmer grip, and he provides it with visible results:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtXPmy_joQQ

I made significant improvement in my ability to control a 3" .45 by simple grip training using a Captains of Crush gripper.
 
I used to exclusively shoot in a Weaver stance, because I thought isosceles was impractical as it made your body into a larger silhouette. However, I recently tried isosceles at the range and it worked REALLY well for me. Try that. Also, remember: you are on the safe side of the gun! Try to forget about recoil hurting you (because it's not going to).
Lastly, try a thicker gun. I shoot 1911s well, but when I rented a double-stack .45, my groups were actually better--and I have small hands!
 
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