Debating CCW with a liberal talk show host Thursday

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Keep your arguments short and to the point. Don't ramble on about statistics - no matter how valid, you'll lose audience.

Don't say: "Crime reports show that CHL holders are statistically prone to be X times more law abiding than the population at large, yadda yadda yadda. . . "

Say: "You know, if you judge things just by arrest records, CHL holders have a better history of being law abiding than the officers in some major, big-city police departments."

If he says "Why do you need a gun? Aren't you man enough to defend yourself?"

You could always work in something along the lines of "Well, not everyone can duke it out with a mugger. You know, if Nicole Brown Simpson (Or maybe Lacey Peterson?) had been armed the night she was murdered, there's a good chance that today she'd be a rich widow. No guarantees, but don't you think a mugger's target deserves at least a chance?"

If he says "There will be blood in the streets, and people will be shooting each other over fender benders . . . "

Say "Oh, for crying out loud, that argument has been proven wrong so many times that I'm surprised anyone has the chutzpah to try to use it any more . . . "
 
+1 HankB.

Stay away from statistics. Statistics are boring and most people feel statistics are worthless anyhow.

He'll more than likely state most of the anti-gun clichés, which are designed to appeal to the emotional side of people who cannot think for themselves. This drivel works due to its "shock value.”

You'll need to counter his rhetoric with an unheated – though passionate – logical point of view. Hopefully you can appeal to the listener’s common sense side… but we are talking Madison here… :barf:
 
If I were you, I'd be prepared for the old-time favorite: "A person who has a gun in their house is X-times more likely to have the gun used on them, or have a child injured or killed with the gun, than they are to successfully defend themselves from an attacker."

Also be ready for the "X people were murdered with guns in <insert city name here>, located in a state with CCW laws. How do you explain that?" Be sure to point out that most guns used to commit crimes are obtained outside the laws, and that the real solution is to start enforcing the laws we already have....

Good luck!
 
From our own John Ross:

Give It to Them Straight
by John Ross
Author of Unintended Consequences

Source http://www.joebrower.com/RKBA/RKBA_FILES/RKBA_FILES.htm

The biggest mistake we make is failing to take the moral high ground on our issue, and letting our
enemies define the terms.

THEY SAY: "We'd be better off if no one had guns."

WE SAY: "You can never succeed at that, criminals will always get guns." (FLAW: The implication here is that if you
COULD succeed, it would be a reasonable plan.)

WE SHOULD SAY: "So, you want to institute a system where the weak and elderly are at the mercy of the strong, the
lone are at the mercy of the gang. You want to give violent criminals a government guarantee that citizens are disarmed.
Sorry, that's unacceptable. Better that we should require every citizen to carry a gun."

***

THEY SAY: "Those assault rifles have no sporting purpose. You don't need a 30-round magazine for hunting deer --
they're only for killing people."

WE SAY: "I compete in DCM High Power with my AR-15. You need a large-capacity magazine for their course of fire.
My SKS is a fine deer rifle, and I've never done anything to give my government reason not to trust me, blah, blah, blah."
(FLAW: You have implicitly conceded that it is OK to ban any gun with no sporting use. And eventually they can replace
your sporting arms with arcade-game substitutes.)

WE SHOULD SAY: "Your claim that 'they're only for killing people' is imprecise. A gas chamber or electric chair is
designed for killing people, and these devices obviously serve different functions than guns. To be precise, a high capacity
military-type rifle or handgun is designed for CONFLICT. When I need to protect myself and my freedom, I want the most
reliable, most durable, highest capacity weapon possible. The only thing hunting and target shooting have to do with
freedom is that they're good practice."

***

THEY SAY: "If we pass this CCW law, it will be like the Wild West, with shoot-outs all the time for fender-benders, in
bars, etc. We need to keep guns off the streets. If doing so saves just one life, it will be worth it."

WE SAY: "Studies have shown blah blah blah." (flaw: You have implied that if studies showed CCW laws equaled more
heat-of-passion shooting, CCW should be illegal.

WE SHOULD SAY: "Although no state has experienced what you are describing, that's not important. What is important
is our freedom. If saving lives is more important that anything else, why don't we throw out the Fifth amendment? We have
the technology to administer an annual truth serum session to the entire population. We'd catch the criminals and mistaken
arrest would be a thing of the past. How does that sound?"

***

THEY SAY: "I don't see what the big deal is about a five day waiting period."

WE SAY: "It doesn't do any good, criminals don't wait five days, it's a waste of resources blah blah blah." (FLAW: You
have implied that if waiting periods DID reduce crime, they would be a good idea.)

WHAT WE SHOULD SAY: "How about a 24-hour cooling-off period with a government review board before the news is
reported? Wouldn't that prevent lives from being ruined, e.g. Richard Jewell? And the fact that this law applies to people
who ALREADY own a handgun tells me that it's not about crime prevention, it's about harassment. Personally, I want to
live in a free society, not a 'safe' one with the government as chief nanny."

***

THEY SAY: "In 1776, citizens had muskets. No one ever envisioned these deadly AK-47s. I suppose you think we should
all have atomic bombs."

WE SAY: "Uh, well, uh . . ."

WE SHOULD SAY: "Actually, the Founders discussed this very issue - it's in the Federalist Papers. They wanted the
citizens to have the same guns as were the issue weapons of soldiers in a modern infantry. Soldiers in 1776 were each
issued muskets, but not the large field pieces with exploding shells. In 1996, soldiers are issued M16s, M249s, etc. but not
howitzers and atomic bombs. Furthermore, according to your logic, the laws governing freedom of the press are only valid
for newspapers whose presses are hand-operated and use fixed type. After all, no one in 1776 foresaw offset printing or
electricity, let alone TV and satellite transmission."

***

THEY SAY: "We require licenses on cars, but the powerful NRA screams bloody murder if anyone ever suggests licensing
these weapons of mass destruction."

WE SAY: Nothing, usually, and just sit there looking dumb.

WE SHOULD SAY:"You know, driving is a luxury, where firearms ownership is a right secured by the Constitution. But
let's put that aside for a moment. It's interesting you compared guns and vehicles. Here in the U.S. you can AT ANY AGE
go into any state and buy as many motorcycles, cars, or trucks of any size as you want, and you don't need to do anything if
you don't use them on public property. If you DO want to use them on public property, you can get a license at age 16. This
license is good in all 50 states. NO waiting periods, no background checks, nothing. If we treated guns like cars, a fourteenyear-
old could go into any state and legally buy handguns, machine guns, cannons, whatever, cash and carry, and shoot
them all with complete legality on private property. And at age 16 he could get a state license good anywhere in the country
to shoot these guns on public property."

***

Final comment, useful with most all arguments:

YOU SAY: "You know, I'm amazed at how little you care about your grandchildren. I would have thought they meant
more to you than anything."

THEY SAY:"Huh?"

YOU SAY: "Well, passing this proposal won't have a big immediate effect. I mean, in the next couple of years, neither Bill
Clinton nor Newt Gingrich is going to open up internment camps like Roosevelt did fifty-odd years ago. But think of your
worst nightmare of a political leader. Isn't it POSSIBLE that a person like that MIGHT be in control here some time in the
next 30, 40, or 50 years, with 51% of the Congress and 51% of the Senate behind him? If that does happen, do you
REALLY what your grandchildren to have been stripped of their final guarantee of freedom? And do you really want them
to have been stripped of it BY YOU?"
 
I have a definate "Ides of March" feeling about this. The fact that it is going to be recorded rather than aired live screams of creative editing. Also bear in mind the key demographic of this station (Progressive Madison bliss-ninnies). Perhaps it will be a true discourse on the issue. However, it is more than likely an attempt for the young social crusader to smite the "evil gun owner.":rolleyes:
 
Depending on how strong your paranoia is, consider recording the broadcast session. You bring your own recording equipment, don't rely on the station's copy. That's my stock advice to anyone dealing with the media this day and time.
 
Good advice Waitone.

AWESOME post, CS 75 BD; containing a number of great retorts.
 
CZ 75 BD said:
next 30, 40, or 50 years, with 51% of the Congress and 51% of the Senate behind him? If that does happen, do you
REALLY what your grandchildren to have been stripped of their final guarantee of freedom? And do you really want them
to have been stripped of it BY YOU?"
dont you mean house?
 
Hmm, it's going to be taped?

I'm going to assume that it will air at another time/date?

If so, do you know the time and date that it will air?


Something does smell fishy to me. Z104 is in the heart of liberal/communist Madison, and it seems weird that they'd set up a CCW debate. I've never known them to air political stuff. Then again, I never listen to their crap anyways...
 
+1 on recording the conversation, but also let him know you are recording so he doesn't ty to pull anything.
 
editing will happen, what you need is final approval of the "to air" version, how much lead time before this airs?
 
"YOU SAY: "You know, I'm amazed at how little you care about your grandchildren. I would have thought they meant
more to you than anything."

THEY SAY:"Huh?"

YOU SAY: "Well, passing this proposal won't have a big immediate effect. I mean, in the next couple of years, neither Bill
Clinton nor Newt Gingrich is going to open up internment camps like Roosevelt did fifty-odd years ago. But think of your
worst nightmare of a political leader. Isn't it POSSIBLE that a person like that MIGHT be in control here some time in the
next 30, 40, or 50 years, with 51% of the Congress and 51% of the Senate behind him? If that does happen, do you
REALLY what your grandchildren to have been stripped of their final guarantee of freedom? And do you really want them
to have been stripped of it BY YOU?""


That's a GREAT idea. Good job on that post.:)
 
Waitone said:
Depending on how strong your paranoia is, consider recording the broadcast session. You bring your own recording equipment, don't rely on the station's copy. That's my stock advice to anyone dealing with the media this day and time.

Why? What would you do with your recording after they got done "editing" and airing what they wanted to?

If you felt you had to record an interview with the media, you're better off not getting involved in the first place.
 
Be prepared for a focus on accidental deaths. The most disconcerting thing about gun ownership is the increased likelyhood that your child or a playmate will accidentally shoot themselves or someone else.
Be prepared for that angle. Doctors and stay-at-home moms are really going after guns based on that.
-David
 
Well, I just finished up. Dustin was extremely fair, and almost seemed to be on our side.

I'll be getting a CD of the interview on Saturday, so we'll see if anything gets cut. I don't expect it, though.
 
Well I hope all of the detractors at THR are eating a bit of crow today. :p

Rick
 
Dick, that is extremely suprising to me...

Kudos to both of you if the discussion went well, and they edit it to keep the original content intact.

Did they indicate when(if at all) it would air?
 
fiveoboy01, he said it would air the morning of January 1st. I didn't ask for a specific time.

I'll see if one of our Madison volunteers can tape the show.

From his questions, though, I don't think he's going to do anything underhanded. It was a really good show. And, believe me, I've had some really hostile interviews. A couple of times I just hung up the phone.

If anyone can 'splain to me how to upload a CD or other audio file to a website, everybody here will be able to critique my "um's" and "uh's."

I have to hand it to this kid, Dustin. Just out of high school, and I think he has the "fair and balanced" thing down right.
 
AZRickD said:
Well I hope all of the detractors at THR are eating a bit of crow today. :p
Being a pessimist... you get used to the taste of crow. :D
It's like duck, but a little more "gamey". :neener:

Honestly - I'm always happy to eat crow in a situation like this. Glad it went well, Dick.

MonkeyLeg said:
he said it would air the morning of January 1st.
Isn't that a coincidence... an unpopular topic to air when most of the U.S. is asleep with a hangover. There I go being pessimistic again. :scrutiny:
 
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