Decent deal on starter gun safe

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Oh, I thought you meant a Safe for keeping 'Starter' Guns in, you know, the kind they fire for starting foot races and hurdles and so on.


If it was me, I would just have some really old Refrigerator in the Garage, splatter some different color paints on it, fit a big padlock and hasp, and write the word "Paint Locker" on it.


No one would ever bother it.
 
SAW a video on some cheep and some high dollar safes that were not bolted down,

once on the ground 2 guys were able to get into them in 10-30 min with a crow bar, sledge hammer and a 5 foot pry bar.

ones bolted to your slab they had a hard time getting any leverage as most were in a closet were there was no working room
 
Any safe is better than no safe and fire is as much of a danger as thieves. It looks ok for a basic gun box, but it really is not a safe, it is a residential security container. Bolting it down makes it far harder to force open, especially if it is in a closet. Go buy it.
 
Less than 10 minutes, a meth head and a FIRE AX opens the can in about 5 min, two guys know what to do, 2 minutes, fork life and safe = open

Until you get to a SAFE and by that I mean UL rated against tool threats

RSC are in the same class as gym lockers and those school cafe money boxes, hell cash drawers have a high rating than most gun safes...

Ask around at a Security store that sells safes, they can point a decent one out, or ask
a1abdj http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=18917
he does it for a living
 
CHEVELLE427 said:
SAW a video on some cheep and some high dollar safes that were not bolted down,

once on the ground 2 guys were able to get into them in 10-30 min with a crow bar, sledge hammer and a 5 foot pry bar.

ones bolted to your slab they had a hard time getting any leverage as most were in a closet were there was no working room
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That would be an interesting video to watch.

While I know this safe is not a high quality one, it is certainly better than the junk they are selling at Home depot and the like. Mine is by the same company, but has thicker steel, and a higher fire protection rating. However it lacks some of the features this one does, and is almost double the price. For what I was looking for originally, I'd have picked this one up as my first starter safe.
 
That would be an interesting video to watch.
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it was on some gun show about a year back , in a big wear house, they had 10-12 safes they broke into, didn't matter how many bolts went around the thing once they got that 5' pry bar in the thing it was not long before the door was bent out enough to open it.

i think it was another safe company showing off there product
 
Look for safe ratings. Any good safe should have a standard time rating to tell you how long it takes to break through with any hand tools. I don't think the ratings surpass 30 minutes, because few safes can last that long anyways. Getting any steel safe bolted to the floor will get you 90% of the way.
 
looked like the guys on the left were working a little harder then the one's on the right and the ones on the right started at the strongest part ,
the end,
less leverage to pop open the door.
 
Been down this road. This is what I settled on. Seems to have features others charge a lot more for. Very happy so far. But nobody has tried to break into it though. Cost includes garage delivery. Discount for veterans. But ya gotta prove it.

They have a bevy of videos.

http://www.steelwatergunsafes.com/

TUCKERDOG1
 
I just had one of these delivered from Costco. This is my first RSC, seems like it's decent quality.

I bolted through the base into solid concrete floor, then lag bolts through the back side into the wall. The safe is installed in a small man-cave, the only entrance door keyed and is tied to the central house alarm. I think it's relatively "safe" now. :)
 
once on the ground 2 guys were able to get into them in 10-30 min with a crow bar
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A burglary rated safe with a 15 minute rating would have a steel wall 10 times thicker than that of your average gun safe. If it takes somebody 10 to 30 minutes to tear through 1/10" steel sheet, they simply aren't trying very hard.

it was on some gun show about a year back , in a big wear house, they had 10-12 safes they broke into, didn't matter how many bolts went around the thing once they got that 5' pry bar in the thing it was not long before the door was bent out enough to open it.
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Technically the RSC label is a UL rating. This rating covers an attack using a hand held hammer not to exceed 3 pounds in weight, or 18" in length. It also covers the use of a prying device not to exceed 18" in length. The safe has to resist entry for 5 minutes.

Needless to say, it doesn't take much to keep somebody out with a hammer and a screwdriver for 5 minutes.

Any good safe should have a standard time rating to tell you how long it takes to break through with any hand tools.
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When it comes to burglary ratings, a safe can fail the test without actually being opened. This ensures that the safe will last at least as long as the rating says it will under the worst case scenario.

I don't think the ratings surpass 30 minutes, because few safes can last that long anyways.
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Safe ratings go up to 60 minutes against all tools, pressure applying devices, acetylene torches, and explosives. During these types of tests, the persons attacking the safes are professional safe crackers with advanced knowledge of the safe's design. UL does not play games, which is why UL ratings are usually the only ratings accepted by insurers here in the US.

There is a demonstration I like to do to show people how "heavy" their big box safe door is. I open the door about 8 inches, then stand facing it. I place my knee half way up the door along the opening edge, and place my right hand on the upper left corner. I then push with my knee and pull with my hand. At 6', 140 pounds, I can usually flex the door so much that it is clearly visible to anybody standing within a few feet of the safe.

Don't get me wrong. Even a lighter safe will keep firearms safe from children and most smash and grab thieves. They simply don't offer much security from a determined somebody who wants in.
 
a1abdj said:
Even a lighter safe will keep firearms safe from children and most smash and grab thieves. They simply don't offer much security from a determined somebody who wants in.
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Don't get me wrong, I know there are vast differences between starter safes if you will, vs. full blown commercial grade safes. However I know a guy who has a Liberty Presidential Safe that cost him $4k or so. I don't know what you opinion is on that model, but it is certainly not your run of the mill gunsafe, right?
It provides more protection than the safe I own or the one I posted here, but is the cost difference warranted when compared to the actual risk someone might encounter. For instance I live in a very safe neighborhood, have a sophisticated alarm with heat and smoke wired in, triggers/tampers, secondary/backup notification etc. That combined with a large guard dog, diligent neighbors, and of course other things to prevent/deter break ins have equaled zero attempts since I've lived here. With all that, you might say why not spring for an extra $3k or so to get a better safe, but to me I can save that money and put it toward other needs. So from my perspective the safe in the OP is a decent one for those who do not have a high risk/likelihood of being burglarized. If you disagree please do so with specifics.
 
However I know a guy who has a Liberty Presidential Safe that cost him $4k or so. I don't know what you opinion is on that model, but it is certainly not your run of the mill gunsafe, right?
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Although it is heavier than the rext of the Liberty line, it's still light, even amongst gun safes. The skin is 7 gauge, and the most plate the safe has is 1/4" in the door. A good chunk of that $4K is to cover the fancy paint job, nice interior, and the Liberty Presidential decal on the door, none of which do anything to protect the contents against theft of fire.

I think I calculated in another thread that the AMSEC BF series offers more steel, and at a much lower price. $4k is also in the ball park of something like a Graffunder that will offer more steel and is a very nice safe. $4K will also buy you a used jewelers safe that cost $10K new, weighs several thousand pounds, and offers true fire and burglary protection.

There are people out there that are fans of particular gun safe manufacturers and have to buy their top of the line safes. I think Fort Knox has safes selling for $10K plus, and they have a customer base that will buy them knowing that they're not getting $10K worth of protection.

My problem is not with the safe, the protection it offers, or the price paid. My problem is with the information a consumer is using when making these decisions. Many people are using safes that will stop a thief for 2 minutes, and offers minimal fire protection. Due to what the manufacturer, salesperson, or internet research says, the owners are thinking they are protected from James Bond and wild fires.

I want people to be aware of the reality, and make an informed decision. If they choose a $500 safe with the proper knowledge, and willfully choose the risk involved, that's fine. If they choose a $500 safe with the wrong knowlege, they are living with a false sense of security which may bite them some day.
 
a1abdj said:
Although it is heavier than the rext of the Liberty line, it's still light, even amongst gun safes. The skin is 7 gauge, and the most plate the safe has is 1/4" in the door. A good chunk of that $4K is to cover the fancy paint job, nice interior, and the Liberty Presidential decal on the door, none of which do anything to protect the contents against theft of fire.
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In your opinion(considering your view of the Liberty Presidential model), are you better off spending $500-$1000 on a safe like I recommended in the OP, or getting the Presidential for around $4k if those were your only choices? For that matter my upgraded Big Horn safe which I am very happy with (other than it's size) cost me about $1k. It will not stop professional thieves who have time, but they would have very little time if they broke into my home.
I'm asking because I am trying to determine the cost to benefit ratio. Keep in mind that the risk level would be considered low for the aforementioned question.
 
Vector,this truely reminds me of a guy I know of that bought a Sam's Club Winchester gun safe a couple of years ago.
Between his and his wife's salary they probably bring in 250 k a year and live in an upscale neighborhood with all sorts of electronic security.
Guy had the money to buy that safe or a Presidential or really whatever he really wanted.
My opinion to him was as long as all he is storing in it are a few bird guns or so it's more than sufficient in his home.
But money,valuable papers,stocks,bullion...Better get a real safe and that is going to be much more than 5-600 bucks.

Edit to add....I would be a bit more comfortable with my upper end things in a Presidential or my own Amsec BF or another makers 3/16th of an inch bodied safe than I would a 12 gauge bodied safe with a weak door.
Certainly not break in proof but a lot more stout..Of course costs more as well.
 
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Back to the original question - for a starter safe (Residential Security container) I would say its OK.

If you only have $600 for a safe then you probaly aren't storing $10,000 worth of goods. And it is better than nothing.

If you aren't concerned about looks you could go to a safe store and ask about used safes that work but are scatched up.

I spent close to $4000 and got a large used TL-30 1 inch of steel on 5 sides - the door is thicker - its not pretty but I cover it anyway so you don't see it.

I actuall have a smaller fire resistant safe inside it for papers.
 
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In your opinion(considering your view of the Liberty Presidential model), are you better off spending $500-$1000 on a safe like I recommended in the OP, or getting the Presidential for around $4k if those were your only choices?
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If those safes were your options, and you had $4,000, you would probably get much better protection by buying four $1,000 safes and splitting up the contents. This is very common in jewelry stores. I have customers that have 10 safes in their stores, and everything is split among them.

If you only have $600 for a safe then you probaly aren't storing $10,000 worth of goods.
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You would really be surprised.
 
Hi A1adbj -

I probably should have worded it differently because I'm sure a lot of people go cheap when it comes to their safe.

I spoke with you about 4 -5 years ago when I was looking for a safe.

I liked what you had to offer but the shipping costs made the difference to me.

I ended up buying a used safe from a local store and it worked out well.

No burglaries and I feel very "safe" when I leave home and all my guns, knifes, and other valuables are locked away.

I ended up with a big grey monster TL-30 that I had to take shelves out of but I feel well protected which is a big plus.
 
I ended up with a big grey monster TL-30 that I had to take shelves out of but I feel well protected which is a big plus.
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That is great! A lot of people don't even realize that there are safe companies outside of the retail stores where they usually see gun safes. Guys in my line of work are great for advice, and often have deals on used units.

The nice thing about a TL-30 is that it would last forever against the same tools used to get a 5 minute rating on a gun safe.
 
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