Deep conceal 9MM or 380?
- Thread starter bimmerland
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I have owned a Kel-Tec P32 which was great but somewhat of a pain to get ammo for, but it was ultra reliable and light as a feather. I sold it to my brother and bought the LCP. The first 3 mags through the LCP resulted in 2 FTF and 1 FTE, the remaining 100 rounds I fired that day were perfect. Since then I have fired an additional 50 fmjs and 6 Hornady extreme defense loads with no issues. The guns a bit snappy but by no means difficult to shoot. Anyone carrying a pocket pistol not broken in ( min 100 rounds fired ) is crazy. Every single post Iv read people mention some type of failure within the 1st 25 rounds or so. Good luck with your decision!!
bimmerland
Member
Thank you all for your replies. I am now at a point where felt recoil would be a deciding part of the equation. Also with the new crop of small 9MM maybe it would be better to stay with a 9. I have my G26 but I can't pocket carry comfortably due to short stature. If I stayed with a 380 which one has the less felt recoil or if I went with a 9MM is there anything out there that is smaller and thinner than a G26 that can be carried pocket only. My G26 has a mild recoil so I would be looking for a 9 with the same characteristics.
catnphx
Member
bimmerland - Take a look at this entire thread at The Firing Line (check the whole thread because he does nice comparisons throughout) and it will show good comparisons with between some smaller guns. It was one of many decision points that helped lead me in my recent purchase of a Kahr CW9.
Small Gun Side-by-Side Comparisons
Good luck on your decision. By the way, my personal opinion is to stick to a 9mm.
Small Gun Side-by-Side Comparisons
Good luck on your decision. By the way, my personal opinion is to stick to a 9mm.
bimmerland
Member
@catnphx - thanks for the pointer. I appreciate your advice on staying with 9MM. At this point I don't "need" a gun because the G19 and G26 fit my purpose and my little pocket .22 fills a niche for when I just want to carry for safety reasons. The next gun is a "want" gun with not much thought behind price but behind purpose and that is to step up from my pocket .22 to something larger that I can pocket carry. I am at the point where my shooting ability has gone from hitting the target to putting the second shot in the same hole. The charts gave me a great insight into size but not function so I will continue to peruse the forums for suggestions that will ultimately lead me to the right choice.
Glock G19, G26
Taurus 85, PT22
Ruger MarkII
.32 ?
.380 ?
Glock G19, G26
Taurus 85, PT22
Ruger MarkII
.32 ?
.380 ?
Glockenspieler
Member
You're not really missing anything in the .380 Glock 25 and 28, as they have same exterior dimensions as the Glock 19 and 26, but are chambered for .380. These are for export to countries that prohibit the civilian use of military cartridges like the 9mm luger. I don't think U.S. import restrictions are the issue, just a lack of market for an oversize .380 in the USA.
My new Kahr P380 has been returned to the manufacturer to address reliability issues (mostly frequent premature lockbacks). I know the Ruger LCP, S&W Bodyguard 380, and most, if not all, of the new generation of mini -.380's have also had reliability issues. So perhaps Glock's lack of such a gun should tell us something.
BTW, I usually carry the Glock 22, 23 or 27 as I did during my Law Enforcement career, but being a "die-hard" fan of ANY gun can get you hard-killed!
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bimmerland
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@Glockenspieler - I agree with you in not missing anything with a G25 or G28 because I don't need a .380 the size of my G26 or G19. I have read many reports on the G28 and did not find anything regarding reliability issues but it does use a different mechanism (blowback) than the G26. There is no lack of G25's or G28's in the European arena because most countries limit the caliber that non military person can carry and secondly they do not meet minimum BATF requirements for import. If you were with the FBI or CIA you are allowed to have a Glock .380 for your very own. I know that if Glock could make a .380 the size of the crop of pocket guns they would be very successful based on their past experience and thier outstandaing reliability. Just waiting for it to happen. I the meantime will keep looking. Thanks for the feedback.
snooperman
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Carrying a "pocket nine" and shooting a "pocket nine" is not..
for everyone , including me. It is a bit too much in recoil , weight, and trying to get off a quick second shot compared to the 9-11 oz 380 pistols that are available. With the new ammunition that is core bonded in 380, such as Winchester PDX1, Remington Golden Saber, and Speer Gold dot , the wound channel and penetration is very adequate for the up-close conditions you are going to encounter with a CCW. Most people that I know who have tried the "pocket nine" guns like the Kahr PM9 , usually end up carrying them in a hip or IWB holsters, not in the pocket. That is what happened with me. Just a thought, that you may want to consider before you make a decision.
for everyone , including me. It is a bit too much in recoil , weight, and trying to get off a quick second shot compared to the 9-11 oz 380 pistols that are available. With the new ammunition that is core bonded in 380, such as Winchester PDX1, Remington Golden Saber, and Speer Gold dot , the wound channel and penetration is very adequate for the up-close conditions you are going to encounter with a CCW. Most people that I know who have tried the "pocket nine" guns like the Kahr PM9 , usually end up carrying them in a hip or IWB holsters, not in the pocket. That is what happened with me. Just a thought, that you may want to consider before you make a decision.
snooperman
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For "deep concealment" I use the Seecamp 32 ..as a second gun...
with primary carry in my pocket or IWB with the Kahr P380. Both light weight.
with primary carry in my pocket or IWB with the Kahr P380. Both light weight.
bimmerland
Member
Just had a chance to handle the Bersa .380 CC. It fits well, conceals in my jeans pocket and may be the .380 I have been looking for. So far the reports I have read give it good marks. Any opinions please. I know it's not a KAHR or a SIG but a half the price it might be worth a look. Also it has a decent weight since it is all metal to minimize felt recoil.
Tomcat47
Member
Small Frame .38 or 9mm Revolver?
I looked at LC9 and other variants today, after looking at all the small, slim 9mm pistols I really did not see any more practicality in them from a snub nose .38
Maybe one more round than the .38....? big whoop! Weight might be the biggest difference, but I bought a Model 85 Ultralite which compares out weight wise and a Model 905 9mm revolver and passed the small 9mm autos aside.
For deep carry I contend that any of the little autos are to no great advantage over a small snubbie revolver.
But dont get me wrong I like the LC9 and Taurus 709 Slim alot but just seen no great advantage over revolver.
Just my observance of the day....my 2 cents as I seen it...and they just felt better in my hand when compared side by side.
I looked at LC9 and other variants today, after looking at all the small, slim 9mm pistols I really did not see any more practicality in them from a snub nose .38
Maybe one more round than the .38....? big whoop! Weight might be the biggest difference, but I bought a Model 85 Ultralite which compares out weight wise and a Model 905 9mm revolver and passed the small 9mm autos aside.
For deep carry I contend that any of the little autos are to no great advantage over a small snubbie revolver.
But dont get me wrong I like the LC9 and Taurus 709 Slim alot but just seen no great advantage over revolver.
Just my observance of the day....my 2 cents as I seen it...and they just felt better in my hand when compared side by side.
RichBMW
Member
The Ruger LC9 has become my choice for a carry gun. I do have the LCP as well, but I only use that when I am limited to the deep concealment required when I wear dress slacks. Both are pocket pistols and both require PRACTICE. It's easy to shoot a full-size .45 or 9mm the first time out, but small guns are not the same. The sight picture, the kick, the fit-in-the-hand, the trigger pull should not be experienced for the first time in an emergency. And the guns work better after they have used in practice sessions for a few hundred rounds.
I just don't understand the person who buys a small gun and then carries the weapon in his pocket without ever practicing with it.
I just don't understand the person who buys a small gun and then carries the weapon in his pocket without ever practicing with it.
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bimmerland
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Anybody have any experience with the Bersa 380 CC. Looks like a good deal for the money.
harmon rabb
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The LCP is much, much, much snappier than a Sig 238. It's really not fun to fire, whereas the 238 is pretty comfy.
Supposedly the Kahr P380 and Taurus TCP are soft shooters, but I've never had the opportunity to fire one.
Supposedly the Kahr P380 and Taurus TCP are soft shooters, but I've never had the opportunity to fire one.
harmon rabb
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The Taurus PT709 and Kel-Tec PF-9 have 7 round mags. That's 8 total rounds including one in the chamber. A snub gives you 5 rounds. I call an extra 3 rounds an advantage. I call being able to change mags quickly and not fumble with speedloaders an advantage.
Revolvers have their own advantages, but to claim that a small auto has nothing over a small revolver is just daft.
I have a TCP as well as a P238 and although the TCP is softer shooting than the LCP qnd P3AT it's not nearly as soft shooting as the P238.
IMO the P238 is in a class by it's self.
harmon rabb
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Couldn't agree more. Did you see that Colt is resurrecting the Mustang? I'll be picking one of those up too. Should be interesting to shoot them back to back.
bimmerland
Member
When is the mustang going to be available and how is pricing vs P238.
I wish Sig would make something like the P238 but in 9mm. I like the design but not the chambering, and their other subcompact 9's don't really do anything for me. The P239 is a sweet gun, but a little too big given its capacity IMHO.
Bigger is better, but I've found you ask for problems when you try to run big bullets in small guns, so... When I can't adequately conceal my Springfield XD45 Compact (.45 ACP), I carry a Kahr PM9 (9x19mm), and when I can't adequately conceal my Kahr PM9, I carry a Ruger LCP (.380 ACP). To stay under $550 with the 9mm, opt for a Kahr CM9. All the guns above are leaders in concealability and reliability for their type, and they all operate the same basic way: draw, aim, squeeze trigger--BOOM!.
I think the reason the P238 shoots so well is 380 is the right round for the gun.
Chambering the P238 in 9mm IMO would be a big mistake.
I didn't know that. It should be a good seller.
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