Deep freezing your barrel

[roc1]

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Does anyone here have any input as whether the Cyro process of freezing your barrel to -300 degrees and then heating it up will do any good? I have read pros and cons. Some manufactures do some say it is not necessary. It is suppose to remove stress and make the gun shoot better and it is easier to clean. I was wondering if anyone has any input? several places do this for a nominal fee.
Thanks
roc1

 

[Tirod]

The whole point of cryogenic treatment is for heat treatment of high alloy steels. The process is conducted to 1) set the appropriate RC hardness 2) refine the crystalline structure.

It's used on high stress parts including race engines, turbines, and knife blades. With that in mind, read on.

Barrels are low alloy, annealed parts. Dead soft, because running a number of rounds down the barrel will heat it beyond any quench temperature and anneal it anyway. If anything, barrels are normalized, which is a process to remove any crystalline structures that might have been captured by sudden cooling. Hard and soft spots in a barrel create interesting stresses that designers and engineers take pains to remove.

So the question is, does cryogenic treatment of annealed steel alloys show improvements in wear resistance, strength, ductility, yield strength, etc., ? Are they measureable, will the consequence be improved barrel life or accuracy?

Who claims how many MOA improvement, or thousands of rounds extra barrel life, and what is their documentation?

After all that, is the money worth it? Or could you just spend that toward a known makers better barrel?

It always boils down to whether the difference is measurable and cost effective. If not, somebody is just marketing something.

 

[NCsmitty]

Here's a small write up on cryogenic treatment in Lilja's FAQ.

www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm



NCsmitty

 

[Welding Rod]

I would like to know more about this too. Rock River Arms is cryo treating at least some of their 308 barrels now. The are a "value" manufacturer of some pretty accurate guns. You never know, but I doubt they would cryo treat production barrels if they hadn't done some measured testing to prove its worth.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Don't waste your cash.....

 

[Welding Rod]

It would be helpful if you were to provide some insight as to how you arrived at you conclusion.

 

[Sir Aardvark]

Since there is absolutely no way of telling whether a barrel has been cryo'd or not - how do you know that the place you sent it to actually performed the cryogenic process on it?

 

[X-Rap]

Weatherby uses some barrels that have been cryo treated. The problem is unless you had it prior to treatment you'd never know if there was an improvement.
I guess we have to take their word for it.

 

[MCMXI]

I'd rather buy a Krieger barrel to start with. Their single cut process puts a minimum amount of stress into the barrel. My two Krieger barrels are incredibly easy to clean i.e. virtually no fouling, and they're VERY accurate.

 

[Offfhand]

Post from above:

"I'd rather buy a Krieger barrel to start with. Their single cut process puts a minimum amount of stress into the barrel. My two Krieger barrels are incredibly easy to clean i.e. virtually no fouling, and they're VERY accurate."

Krieger cryos their barrels in house. John Krieger told me one of the reasons they do it is because it makes the steel more machineable. Which gets to the heart of their cryo treatment: meaning a more accurate barrel can be be made to begin with. And by the way, Krieger also makes button rifled barrels.

 

[X-Rap]

Krieger is the barrel that Weatherby uses in their Ultra series.

 

[Uncle Mike]

We have used the cryo barrels on many builds, as per the customer, and for a time, did it for a selling point, and truth be told, none of the rifles with the cold relieved barrels shot any better than the rifles with your normal produced barrels.

If the process intrigues you, if it makes you think your rifle is going to be more accurate with that particular tube, then by all means get it!

Your rifle may indeed shoot better with a cryo barrel change.... but from what we have seen at the shop, it made no difference. To be fair, maybe one must put the cryo barrel through some type of grueling torture to reap the suggested benefits of cryo stress relief, I do not know...what I do know is that the rifles we did with the cryo relieved barrels, did not exhibit any better accuracy than the rifles we do with a non-cryo barrel installed.

 

[Runningman]

Does anyone here have any input as whether the Cyro process of freezing your barrel to -300 degrees and then heating it up will do any good?

Years ago had a poorly shooting Remington 700 in 300 Winchester mag rebarreled. Used a heavy target contour Pac Nor Super Match barrel. Had it chambered in 7mm STW back when it was still a wildcat.

It shot really well and had a few loads really dialed in. I ran a little over 125 round thru it before taking it off sending it off to have it Cyroed treated.

Results were..... I was out some time, my wallet was lighter and the rifle shot the same.

My suggestion is spend the money on a good high quality hand lapped barrel and be done with it.

 

[Slamfire]

I have a Swedish M96 that walks, and walks badly as the barrel heats. It will climb easily 12 inches at 100 yards.

This explains why it was almost unused when I got it.

Anyway, would cryo fix this?

 

[X - Man]

I've had the receiver, bolt , and barrel cryo'ed on my Mini-14 S/S Ranch rifle. I shot a set of targets before, and then after, using the same ammo. In this case there was not any difference in the groups. I used Federal Bulk pack 55gr, and I have found that this ammo is simply not a good match to this rifle. The barrel is 1 in 7 twist.

Recently, after cryo treatment, I used both 69gr and 77gr ammo and got some very nice groups. I shoot 5 round groups, fired in about one minute. Regardless of the number of rounds fired the groups stay tight and consistent.

I find that on this S/S barrel the cryo has helped primarily in helping to minimizing the barrel from stringing shots as it gets hot. I would have it done again. However, please note that my Mini is S/S, which is an alloy. As stated earlier, cryo seems to work best on steel alloys better that carbon steel.

 

[MCMXI]

Krieger cryos their barrels in house. John Krieger told me one of the reasons they do it is because it makes the steel more machineable. Which gets to the heart of their cryo treatment: meaning a more accurate barrel can be be made to begin with.

You'd think that Krieger would mention that on their website! They talk about a lot of things in the FAQ but there's no mention of a cryogenic step. Wouldn't that be a selling point worth mentioning since it obviously adds to the cost (and possibly performance) of their product?

And by the way, Krieger also makes button rifled barrels.

Again, not mentioned on their web site since their niche is single-point cut barrels. Button rifling puts considerably more stress into the barrel compared to the single-point cutting process. Krieger barrels continue to set numerous world records. I think it's a safe bet that those records are set with single-point cut barrels but I could be wrong about that.

If you ever own a Krieger barrel, you'll be amazed by the difference felt and seen when cleaning them. Patches just glide through the bore with no effort at all. As I mentioned previously, they don't foul and they're very accurate. These comments are based on the two Krieger barrels that I have.

 

[Canuck-IL]

And by the way, Krieger also makes button rifled barrels.

from the Krieger FAQ ...
Q: Why is there some confusion that we might do button rifling?

A: In 1999, we started another barrel company Criterion Barrels that manufactures button rifled barrels for the O.E.M. market. These barrels are not directly for sale to the general public. Recently there have been some magazine articles written regarding this company which has caused some confusion. Be assured that when you order a Krieger Barrel, you are getting a single-point cut-rifled Krieger Barrel.
/Bryan

 

[Offfhand]

As I said, Krieger makes button rifled barrels. And they are cryoed. Was there a question?

 

[Highland Ranger]

You never know, but I doubt they would cryo treat production barrels if they hadn't done some measured testing to prove its worth.

Unless of course there is money to be made, in which case that's the worth!

 

[Welding Rod]

Unless of course there is money to be made, in which case that's the worth!

Sure but why I say I doubt they would do it unless it proved to have a benefit is because they sell on price point. They cut corners as possible to keep the price down. They are in business of selling "value" ARs, albiet generally quite accurate ones. They don't have cryo as an option on the guns. It is just the way some are offered.

 

[Highland Ranger]

You're missing the point perhaps because I am being cryptic.

Value is not absolute - it is perceived. Big difference.

In product design - marketing plays a huge role - if something has perceived value, that is a feature that customers want and from which profit can be made then manufacturers will make it. Whether it has actual quantitative value is not important.

The product or feature doesn't have to be better . . . . . no proof or testing required other than perhaps to show its not less safe.

Make sense?

 

[Uncle Mike]

A: In 1999, we started another barrel company Criterion Barrels that manufactures button rifled barrels for the O.E.M. market. These barrels are not directly for sale to the general public. Recently there have been some magazine articles written regarding this company which has caused some confusion. Be assured that when you order a Krieger Barrel, you are getting a single-point cut-rifled Krieger Barrel.

This was done for the weatherby fellas for some time...it added to the persona of the Weatherby line. Did it actually make the rifles shoot any better...see Highland Rangers post.

Value is not absolute - it is perceived. Big difference.

In product design - marketing plays a huge role - if something has perceived value, that is a feature that customers want and from which profit can be made then manufacturers will make it. Whether it has actual quantitative value is not important.

The product or feature doesn't have to be better . . . . . no proof or testing required other than perhaps to show its not less safe

And there it is, that is exactly how it worked!

 

[OhioChief]

This might be the most fun, and informative Thread I've read in a while. I've learned a ton. Thanks.

 

[geigersd]

I've had the receiver, bolt , and barrel cryo'ed on my Mini-14 S/S Ranch rifle. I shot a set of targets before, and then after, using the same ammo. In this case there was not any difference in the groups. I used Federal Bulk pack 55gr, and I have found that this ammo is simply not a good match to this rifle. The barrel is 1 in 7 twist.

Recently, after cryo treatment, I used both 69gr and 77gr ammo and got some very nice groups. I shoot 5 round groups, fired in about one minute. Regardless of the number of rounds fired the groups stay tight and consistent.

I find that on this S/S barrel the cryo has helped primarily in helping to minimizing the barrel from stringing shots as it gets hot. I would have it done again. However, please note that my Mini is S/S, which is an alloy. As stated earlier, cryo seems to work best on steel alloys better that carbon steel.

I hear a lot of Mini-14 owners talking about cryoing their barrel for the reasons X-Man states. Makes me wonder if I should do my own S/S Mini?!

 

[Al Thompson]

As Sir A. stated, I can't tell if it was done or not, so pick your vendor carefully. The freeze your rifle craze was full swing about ten years back. Everybody with a chest freezer was open for business. I'm sure some folks just received your barrel, cashed your check and sent the barrel back. No freezing involved.