Deer Hunting Bullet - Questions

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usmarine0352_2005

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We've killed several deer within 100 yards this year with .50 caliber 245 gr. Powerbelts and 150 grains of Triple Seven (3 pellets). None ran more then 40 yards. Although none of the bullets exited they did a great job putting the deer down.

My friend who shoots Powerbelts says he's never had a Powerbelt not go completely though a deer. He's shooting 223 gr. and perhaps the lighter round flies through them.


The same friend said that he tested a lot of Blackpowder ammo through his T/C Encore Pro Hunter .50 cal including Powerbelts, Sabots, and others and that the Powerbelt was great to 100 yards and then the accuracy fell apart. Granted, his T/C may not like Powerbelts.



Note: All questions are for a .50 caliber.



1.) Does anyone know about the accuracy of a Powerbelt after 100 yards and up to 200 yards?



2.) Does anyone know if 100 gr. of powder (2 Triple Seven Pellets) is fine for big bodied MN deer out to 200 yards vs. 150 grains (3 Triple Seven Pellets)?



3.) What bullet and powder do you recommend for deer and use?




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well, i can not answer questions #1&2. but i use Hornady 250g SST low drag / sabots in my CVA Optima on top of 120 grains of Triple 7 loose powder. i have not shot a deer yet with it, so i can not answer how well they perform inside of an animal. but coming from Hornady, i can not imagine it would be a bad choice. my reasoning for useing this combination is, it is what my rifle likes. i can hold just over 1" groups @ 100 yards with that combination. less or more opens up the groups. i went through 11 different bullets to find one that worked this well. i have shot most of the rest up as target practice. unless i shoot a deer, and it gets up and runs off with this combination, i am NOT going to change!
 
Well I don't know the angles that you hit your deer, but something seems to be "odd" unless you are going through shoulders or hitting the deer all from head to tail or tail to head..., because my .530 225 grain all lead round ball with merely 70 grains of 3Fg will go through a 100 pound doe at 90 yards. Your round with 150 grains og powder should scream through deer at 100 yards just as your friend reported to you..., unless you have really thick deer, or extreme angles instead of broadside shots.

As to accuracy, there are lots and lots of variables you get even when using an inline. Your powder lot varies as does the moisture. The bullets tend to be less consistant when loaded than they would be in a cartridge. How good is your scope, etc. But your load should work fine. You really should try it out at those ranges to be sure.

Consider that you are shooting the equivalent of a .50-150 round, if such a round ever existed, and the lighter weight of the projectile gives higher velocity and so gives you a flatter trajectory than if you were using say a 450 grain all lead bullet in the same caliber. So..., would you have a problem with using the old Winchester .50-110 cartridge on such an animal? You are using a bullet about half the weight of that round, and about 25% more powder, so I think "on paper" your load should work fine.

LD
 
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LD, we aren't allowed to use scopes in MN, which I sort of like.



We talked to the guy at Cabelas last night and he said one of the biggest complaints about the Powerbelts is they don't pass through making it harder to track since blood might not come out. Although having dropped all of our deer within 40 yards tracking isn't really necessary. Interesting that my buddy has all had pass thru's.


The guy at Cabelas also said inline's can't burn more then 120 grains of powder pellets so putting in any more is a waste. (Although most pellets come in 50 grain increments).


How do you load 120 grains of powder? Special pellets or grain instead?



LD, so you don't think I should drop to 100 grains? Would a .50 cal bullet (any quality brand) with 100 grains of powder be able to kill a big MN deer at 200 yards?

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How do you load 120 grains of powder? Special pellets or grain instead?
Click to expand...

Loose powder. It takes a little longer, but it's not that bad.



LD, so you don't think I should drop to 100 grains? Would a .50 cal bullet (any quality brand) with 100 grains of powder be able to kill a big MN deer at 200 yards?
Click to expand...

Whether or not you should drop to 100 grains depends on what your rifle shoots most accurately. Start at 90 and shoot some groups, working your way up in 5 grain incriments until you find the one your gun likes the best. By the way, 100 grains of powder is plenty for anything you want to hunt.
 
There's a lot of controversy about loading the 245 grain Powerbelts with over 100 grains of powder. Many folks have complained that those predominantly lead bullets will either disintegrate or flatten out to the point to where they don't pass through deer, especially at close range.
That has divided many hunters into 2 camps, those that love Powerbelts and those that hate them.
They recommend to only use 80 - 90 grains of powder to avoid 245 grain Powerbelt bullet failure.
The heavier Powerbelt Platinum bullets are said to be able to withstand higher velocity and provide better all round performance.
Your report of good terminal performance at close range with the same 245 grain Powerbelt high velocity loads could be due to good fortune.
Among the most popular bullets for use with inlines are Barnes all copper bullets and Speer Gold Dots.
 
Sorry, you didn't specify, and I thought you'd be using a copper series power belt..., yes I think you are pushing the envelope on the round a good deal. I would reduce to a 50 gr pellet under a 30 gr pellet for an 80 grain charge, and go from there.

I also think that you might want to consider after market sights if you are going beyond 100 yards..., as I am not "up" on all the variations on inlines..., this is up to you..,, but the few that I have seen and the one that I own all have nice, large, visible sights, that are really too large to get a good sight picture on a deer beyond 100 yards (imho), and to really get a good group and use the rifle to its full potential, again with the few that I have tested, one needed a scope (or if it wasn't allowed such as in your case, one would need something more precise than factory sights). Your rifle may be different.


Just some ideas. Good luck.

LD
 
For what it is worth...I shoot 225 Grain Powerbelts, with 2 pellets, and zero at 100 yards = 8" low at 200 yards, in my T/C Encore 209X45. They are just fine on accuracy with 2 pellets, but 3 pellets I can't keep them on a target to save my A$$. I dropped a 142 lb (dressed) buck at about 35 yards, he went approx 30 more yards, and was dun, and the powerbelt never exited...my .02 worth
 
I thought that many of the Powerbelts are only copper clad bullets - a.k.a. plated bullets.

frontiergander has a website named Frontier Muzzleloading that has a member's only subsection named "Powerbelt Bullets Chat" that's located within their Projectile Forum.
The Powerbelt experts there offer to help folks out with Powerbelt info., and seeking information there may help to not let a big one get away. :)

http://frontiermuzzleloadin.powerguild.net/f5-projectiles

http://frontiermuzzleloadin.powerguild.net/
 
For what it is worth...I shoot 225 Grain Powerbelts, with 2 pellets, and zero at 100 yards = 8" low at 200 yards, in my T/C Encore 209X45. They are just fine on accuracy with 2 pellets, but 3 pellets I can't keep them on a target to save my A$$. I dropped a 142 lb (dressed) buck at about 35 yards, he went approx 30 more yards, and was dun, and the powerbelt never exited...my .02 worth
Click to expand...


So have you shot a deer near 200 yards with your Powerbelts, do they retain their killing power for you past 100 yards?




There are two kinds of powerbelts aren't there? The tipped and the hollow points. Which are you using?
Click to expand...



Both actually.

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Actually there are three, lead, copper, platinum, and the jacketed bullets come with hollow point or a plastic filler tip. The ones that I have seen have been jacketed, or at least "look" like that as they are smooth and shiny (a real scientific measurement..., I know) while the copper clad bullets that I have used for other guns have all had rough surfaces. I assumed (again oops) that since they were jacketed, the interior lead was harder than pure lead, but..., I may be assuming too much.

LD
 
US MARINE, no I haven't shot a deer at 200 yards, and I doubt that it has as much knock down as at 100, it only makes sense that it slows down/ loses velocity. I guess the reason I made that statement was to prove that even at that close, the Powerbelt never exited the deer...
 
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I never broke in the barrel.




I use the two copper plated ones, one with an aero tip, one without.





Some folks say the lead is far too soft which is why they expand inside and don't exit......although massive expansion/explosion inside a deer's chest cavity isn't good for it either.

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Within 100 yards??
Personally as much as I like my inlne, I must say that I will limit my shots to a MAX of 75 yards with this rifle.
200 yards ON PAPER is of course impressive buy we are talking LOWER muzzle velocities to start with plus a bullet of REALLY unknown expansion /killing qualities.
At 75 yards, I can neck shoot an undisturbed animal so I see no real reason for the supposed long shooting needs.
Remember, T/C/ Shock Waves are a mere pistol bullet at PISTOL velocities.
 
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I shot my doe this year at 100 yards with a .245 Powerbelt and she only went about 10 yards.



I'm thinking about putting an accurate Sabot round in, and then using the Powerbelt as the back up round since they load so much easier then anything else I've tried.



I want to play around with some ammo this year and see what's the most accurate. Anyone use the Hornady FPB's?

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If you want pass through, you'll need to step up in bullet weight.

With a 150gr charge and the 223-245gr Powerbelt, they most likely are shedding their weight. Powerbelts are pure lead and pure lead is soft. High velocity + soft lead + hollow point = fragmentation / over expansion.

The Powerbelt Platinums are heavier duty and do a better job at staying together.

Powerbelt has a new series coming out called the Aerolite this january. Its made to handle a full 100gr charge without fragmenting/over expanding.
AEROLITE-V2-01.jpg
 
Marine, I have the TC Pro hunter muzzle loader and have found through MUCH testing, the TC 300gr shockwaves sitting on top of a magnum charge, 3 pellets Triple 777, perform flawlessly both on paper and on deer. Always had pass through and not a one has went out of sight after shot. Most were pretty much "bang flop". Sabots can be a bit on the rough side to reload, these don't start getting difficult till around the 3rd shot and pretty hard on the 5th. The 250gr were ok but I have a 26 inch barrel and like to be able to take advantage of every inch. The 250gr's just didn't like that heavy of a charge. There are a LOT out there that can't handle full charge magnum loads. Powerbelts are definitely one of them that don't.
 
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Frontiergander and Freedom Fighter, interesting. I'll have to look both into the Shockwave's and the new Powerbelts.


I hear that a lot of people only use 100grains of charge. I guess it is more accurate and kills just as well.

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I have two TC Omega's and a CVA Optima Elite.

None of the three will shoot the powerbelts with acceptable accuracy.

Both TC's will shoot under 3" at 200 yards any given day with the TC Shockwave Slickload 250gr or the Hornady SST 250gr and 150grs of T7 pellets. They will shoot close to that with 100grs of T7 pellets.

My best load is 145gr of loose T7 with the Shockwave Slickload/Superglide 250gr, and seated VERY firmly. I have taken deer to 310 yards with that load. I have never had a bullet fail to exit and I have taken about 75 deer with the MZ. (That was an 85" hold over on that shot for those who want to know and it still had as much energy as a .357magnum does at the muzzle)

The CVA has been more problematic to find the right load. The T7 pellets vary greatly from one lot to the next, so once zeroed I shoot that box for the season.

Most shooters have trouble with the recoil of the 150gr loads, and I think this is why so many say the heavy loads are not as accurate. I have shot mine from a machine rest starting at 45grs and working up to 150gr of loose powder and accuracy improved with every increase.

There are several differences in the sabots which make a huge difference on the range. For example, the TC Shockwave and the Hornady SST are the same bullet with different sabot cups. Also, the standard Shockwave and the Slickload/Superglide loads have sabots molded from different polymers. For me, the Slickloads are 100+ FPS faster and more accurate over the standard Shockwaves.
 
tango, as far as the power belts go, you actually can, and a lot often do, over load them. That little "power seal cup" they have is not that strong. This new one they have coming out is actually designed for magnum loads. Also, ALL the powerbelts are in actuality hollow point. Just some of them have the polymer tip inserted into the hollow cavity. The bullets react almost identically in medium. If you push them too fast, they will tend to blow up and most rarely pass through. They are designed to dump energy into the animal. Some get really good results and get pass through results. (Especially on them itty bitty Florida poodles you call deer) :D but most that I have seen report no pass through
 
I have two TC Omega's and a CVA Optima Elite.

None of the three will shoot the powerbelts with acceptable accuracy.

Both TC's will shoot under 3" at 200 yards any given day with the TC Shockwave Slickload 250gr or the Hornady SST 250gr and 150grs of T7 pellets. They will shoot close to that with 100grs of T7 pellets.

My best load is 145gr of loose T7 with the Shockwave Slickload/Superglide 250gr, and seated VERY firmly. I have taken deer to 310 yards with that load. I have never had a bullet fail to exit and I have taken about 75 deer with the MZ. (That was an 85" hold over on that shot for those who want to know and it still had as much energy as a .357magnum does at the muzzle)

The CVA has been more problematic to find the right load. The T7 pellets vary greatly from one lot to the next, so once zeroed I shoot that box for the season.

Most shooters have trouble with the recoil of the 150gr loads, and I think this is why so many say the heavy loads are not as accurate. I have shot mine from a machine rest starting at 45grs and working up to 150gr of loose powder and accuracy improved with every increase.

There are several differences in the sabots which make a huge difference on the range. For example, the TC Shockwave and the Hornady SST are the same bullet with different sabot cups. Also, the standard Shockwave and the Slickload/Superglide loads have sabots molded from different polymers. For me, the Slickloads are 100+ FPS faster and more accurate over the standard Shockwaves.
Click to expand...



I'll have to look at those TC Shockwave Slickloads. Do you mean the TC Shockwaves and the Hornady SST's are from the same manufacturer?



Does your CVA have a Beraga barrel?
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I'll have to look at those TC Shockwave Slickloads. Do you mean the TC Shockwaves and the Hornady SST's are from the same manufacturer?



Does your CVA have a Beraga barrel?


Yes, both bullets are Hornady SSTs with different sabot cups. Hornady makes the bullets for TC.

Yes, my CVA has a Bergara barrel.

t2e
 
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