Defend yourself in the UK, get a fine!

[willbrink]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2008072.ece

Shopkeeper fined £250 for hitting back against thieves
Simon de Bruxelles

A shopkeeper has been fined £250 and given a criminal record because he fought back when he was attacked by shoplifters.

Jacob Smyth chased three youths out of his hardware shop in Penzance, Cornwall, when he was set upon. When he was kicked in the groin by one of the hooded youths who had stolen cans of spray paint Mr Smyth hit back.

 

[FieroCDSP]

Isn't giving up your freedoms great, since you then have less crime.

Really, that's just dumb. He should have had a baseball bat.

 

[fletcher]

Every day I'm grateful my family left the UK 400 years ago.

 

[Blackbeard]

If I ever turn to a life of crime, I'm moving to Britain.

 

[Creature]

That shopkeeper was ill-advised to plead guilty. Surely common sense can't be that far gone, even in the UK...could it?

 

[quatin]

If you do that in the US. Wouldn't you also be open to litigation? If someone were to prove that you kicked the guy after he was down. Wouldn't it no longer be self defense?

 

[Boom-stick]

He should have had a baseball bat.

not unless he had the ball and glove to go with it

Got to a have a reason for it to be there in the first place and a ball and glove do that nicely.

BTW, self defence isn't a valid reason over here.

 

[Imaginos]

Calm & Civil

One must maintain an air of calm civility in all transactions, even the questionable ones don't you know.

 

[sturmgewehr]

There is a difference between a "subject" and a "citizen". That's why we must never allow ourselves to be subjugated.

 

[Tommygunn]

A duplicate thread of this is in "legal & political"..

 

[rdaines]

Assuming that the Brits "had a pair" during WWII, it's amazing how quickly a society of sheeple can be created. I hope we are all watching what happens in the USA?

 

[-gunut-]

That is sick...

 

[Fosbery]

That shopkeeper was ill-advised to plead guilty. Surely common sense can't be that far gone, even in the UK...could it?

Spot on. If the reporting of this is correct i.e. he punched a shoplifter who attacked him, there is no chance in hell he would have been convicted of assault by a jury of his peers. No way, not even in the UK. Either the reporting is wrong somehow or he's one stupid shopkeeper.

 

[DragonFire]

he punched a shoplifter who attacked him

That's not the reason he was charged. The magastrates said "The act was aggravated by the fact you kicked the victim on the ground."

There's no real description of the actual incident, but from the other facts in the reports it would seem that the shopkeeper hit the shoplifters enough to put them to the ground and then continued to kick them while they lay on the ground. I can see why they pressed charges, and letting him go with just a fine seems pretty decent.

This can and has happened here in the states, and isn't really an indication of being anti-gun or pro-crime or anything like that. What starts out as a valid self-defense situation can easily turn into assault or worse if your "defense" doesn't stop when the threat is neutralized.

 

[Cosmoline]

That would apply if the shoplifters had simply been trying to flee. But the report indicates they kicked him first, and he responded. With non-deadly force you should be given some leeway to ensure that an active threat is incapacitated. I don't know many police departments or DA's stateside who would prosecute something like this unless the owner had no scratches on him and the thief was in the hospital with broken bones.

The British justice system is just trying to make a point, and it's the same point they make over and over again in case like this--We control your safety, and you have only very limited rights to defend yourself. It is, to paraphrase that "V" movie, a way of reminding the subjects why they need government. So that in the end you depend on the state for everything from health care to retirement and even on protection from the wolves. You are reduced to the level of infants, with an Orwellian baby monitor on every corner.

 

[hso]

Duplicate in L&P