Defenseless!

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I'm with the OP on this one. I don't mind hunkering down and letting the cops do their job, but I'm not going to sit there as helpless as a rabbit and just hope the wolf goes away. I've never met anyone in my life who was more concerned with my personal safety than I am. I may not be qualified to protect you or anyboby else, but nobody is better qualified to protect me than me. Beside that, even when there is no hope, being armed gives you a choice of leaving this earth standing up or on your knees begging for mercey.
 
Sinxstar

I am not following you...indoorsoccerfrea has done a great job at explaining why the original poster felt like he was "defenseless" But you just don't seem to be picking up what he is laying down!

People carry insurance...Met Life...for the "if" in life! If it happens...you will need it...if not, well then...you didn't.

School shootings and shooting in public areas are all over the news lately, and we are only getting 1/3 of all the incidents. Best advice...be prepared...

but something tells me you will not grasp that idea!
 
School shootings and shooting in public areas are all over the news lately, and we are only getting 1/3 of all the incidents. Best advice...be prepared...

but something tells me you will not grasp that idea!
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I grasp that idea perfectly well.

Show me a single instance however, of a school shooting where the police knew something was going on, locked the school down, took all necessary steps to prevent it - and it still happened.

I've yet to see one.

All of 'em I've seen, have been people who have every right to be on the property, have not raised any suspicions as to what they're about to do, and are only able to do what they do because of the element of surprise.

Simple point to make.
If the OP really felt that helpless and defenseless, and really felt he was in that much danger - did he take his family and get the hell out of dodge? If you're in such danger that "omg i'm unarmed and my life is being threatened" why not leave the situation? I didn't see that mentioned in the original post.
 
a good example is columbine. even after the shooting started, the school was put on lockdown and law enforcement and swat got on scene. guess what? even AFTER they got on scene they still couldn't do anything for a time. if someone knew of a shooting beforehand and told police, school would not be in session that day.
i apologize sinixstar, but i still fail to see what you are trying to get across.
once a school is on lockdown you cannot leave. that is why it is called lockdown.
 
Simple point to make.
If the OP really felt that helpless and defenseless, and really felt he was in that much danger - did he take his family and get the hell out of dodge? If you're in such danger that "omg i'm unarmed and my life is being threatened" why not leave the situation? I didn't see that mentioned in the original post.
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ur...He was forced into a lock down by the school. He could not leave...hence feeling defenseless!
 
a good example is columbine. even after the shooting started, the school was put on lockdown and law enforcement and swat got on scene. guess what? even AFTER they got on scene they still couldn't do anything for a time. if someone knew of a shooting beforehand and told police, school would not be in session that day.
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Again, you're talking about a situation where the bad guys were already in the building, already started shooting, and the police are responding AFTER the fact.
That's a lot different then the police being outside to keep something from happening in the first place.
 
ur...He was forced into a lock down by the school. He could not leave...hence feeling defenseless!
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I fail to understand why having the police in control of the situation would require one to be armed. If the place is locked down, and he's not even able to take his family and leave a potentially dangerous situation - how much risk is he in to begin with? Defenseless against what? A situation that is clearly under control?
 
it is very common for schools to be canceled for a day or two due to threats. if someone catches wind of a threat and notifies authorities, school will not be in session. the bottom line is that crimes such as this CAN be prevented, it just sadly is not common
 
old guy said:
Defenseless!
A School, no one in a School is able to protect any one, including them selves! They are defenseless.

In visiting a School yesterday, my Wife and I were helping our Daughter with a program she was teaching.

Going out to get something from the Jeep, almost got ran down by a violent influx of 5 and 6 year olds! Directed out of the playground by local Police.

Several said emergency! A Orlando City PD car was prowling the grounds, roof lights on. They were looking for someone, here am I in a facility on lock down, unarmed like every one else! and a presumably dangerous person, or persons is being sought by armed Police?

This School was not in the best part of the City, a mile from a correctional facility.

Did I ever feel defenseless watching that Orlando PD vehicle outside, we all locked inside, Defenseless!
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ABC = always be CARRYING.
 
Ok, one last attempt...

Why were the police there in the first place? Because someone was there who should not have been. Hence...the lock down. The BG is/was already there. The police was looking for the BG...they didn't have him yet...he was still roaming free!

So you and your loved ones are locked inside a class room with a potentially BG roaming the halls and the police are still looking for said BG! He enters the class room and you jump and say...Wait the police are here...get on the floor and surrender!

HUMM...not likely...the op is in said class room with loved ones knowing that a GB might come through those doors with as gun and he has no way to defend himself! DEFENSELESS!

Case...March 21, 2005 Red Lake Minn.-- Jeff Weise, 16, killed grandfather and companion, then arrived at school where he killed a teacher, a security guard, 5 students, and finally himself, leaving a total of 10 dead.
 
MDMadrid

Explain to me where it was said that the BG was in the building?
I find it pretty hard to believe the cops would force everybody inside, and lock them in with the suspect, while they drove around OUTSIDE.

also - if you're "locked inside a classroom" - explain to me how someone is supposed to get in?
 
I doubt the OP meant for this thread to become full of bickering. It is my interpretation that the OP was simply expressing frustration with the way various laws can hurt and help in different situations.
Old Guy, I feel your pain. I am a college student and other than carrying a small folding knife with me (don't bring a knife to a gun fight) I am helpless as well.
 
Sinixstar,

First, I would just like to say its good to see you around again. I haven't seen you posting in the last few days. Second, I have some answers to your questions.

The police were there - no? What exactly would your being armed bring to the situation. You are not law enforcement. It is not your job to track down the bad guy. What exactly would you have done had you been armed?
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I cannot speak for the OP, but if I were to answer this question myself I would say something like, "I would have done what I always do when armed -wait until a reasonable person would fear for his or her own life and then react as normal." Just because the police are there does not mean they have things under control. When you are armed at least you can arguably control your immediate surroundings when others might not be able to.

Show me a single instance however, of a school shooting where the police knew something was going on, locked the school down, took all necessary steps to prevent it - and it still happened.

I've yet to see one.

All of 'em I've seen, have been people who have every right to be on the property, have not raised any suspicions as to what they're about to do, and are only able to do what they do because of the element of surprise.
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Police knew something was going on? VIRGINIA TECH! Cho shot and murdered 2 students on campus two hours before he returned to finish off the 30 others. Cops were present (meaning they were on campus) when the shooting started the second time. Cho, in this case had no right to be on the property because he was carrying guns. The University had and still has a no firearms policy. (Gun free zone) SO for both shootings he had no right to be on campus. Cho had raised suspicions about what he was going to do and even should have been legally barred from purchasing a firearm because he had been adjudicated mentally ill. One thing you are correct about is that the police did not take all of the necessary steps to prevent it. Which I believe is a very good argument against your comment:
I fail to understand why having the police in control of the situation would require one to be armed. If the place is locked down, and he's not even able to take his family and leave a potentially dangerous situation - how much risk is he in to begin with? Defenseless against what? A situation that is clearly under control?
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The problem with Virginia Tech is that the police assumed that the situation was under control. The same police that you put all your faith in. There were many things that lead to the disaster at Virginia Tech and the ones I mentioned are not the only ones. I would specifically add that not one teacher or student there was armed to defend themselves.

I was going through my junior year when Virginia Tech happened. My senior paper was about carrying concealed on University campuses. If you would like to read it I am sure I can send you a copy. It is very biased which is why I got a B on it. That and the class was taught by someone very similarly minded to you.

Now that I have graduated and I don't have to worry about getting my degree taken from me, I won't step back on that campus (which is gun free) without a weapon. And wouldn't you know it, I am immune to the the magical properties unique to University campuses that cause people with guns to suddenly go berzerk and start shooting.
 
Trying to compare VT to this situation is a little silly...

Was VT already locked down at the time Cho walked on campus? No.

Was this school already locked down? yes.

Were there cops at VT already? I believe so, but they weren't there to secure the area - they were there investigating something that had happened previously.

Kinda comparing apples and oranges there.

I'm not arguing against people being allowed to carry in schools. Personally - i think it's a little silly that they can't.

I'm just failing to understand the immediate danger. I'm failing to understand the sudden feeling of helplessness, and on and on. It doesn't make sense to me.
Again - if you're in that much danger. Leave.
 
VT was locked down the second time Cho came onto campus. It was locked down because of his first shooting only hours before. Yes the cops were there to secure the area.
 
VT was locked down the second time Cho came onto campus. It was locked down because of his first shooting only hours before. Yes the cops were there to secure the area.
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If that's the case, then how did he get on campus?
 
You totally missed the point. My point is that the police made mistakes in Virginia Tech. They were present. He started shooting. They locked down the school. He kept shooting. 32 People dead. How many died after the lock down? Who knows, but people were getting shot even after the lock down. THE POINT IS THAT THE POLICE FAILED!!!! HE KILLED HIMSELF!!! THE POLICE DID NOTHING!!!!!
 
jake - they didn't lock down the school, not by a long shot.
THey locked down one area, and one area only.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266526,00.html

That's a far cry from nobody in or out....


Edit : I'd also like to point out, there's a HUGE difference (probably many acres of difference) between a College Campus, and an elementary school...
 
I understand the original poster's feeling of being defenseless even though there was probably no immediate danger.

Other than that this thread has turned in to a total waste of bandwidth.

State your point and move on!
 
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