Deforestation of favorite hunting spot

[HOOfan_1]

I hunt on a State farm which only state employees can hunt on. Next to it is a private farm. One of my favorite hunting spots is in a location right next to the private farm where not many other people on the state farm hunt. This place is LOADED with squirrels. I've called up a bunch of turkeys there and in fall see them going to roost all the time. The place also has plenty of deer.

Well the spot has (had) a tract of woods which was probably from my estimation on google maps, +/- 250 acres. This spring about 60% of it on the private farm side was cut down to the ground...not a tree left standing, except a buffer zone around a creek.

On the image below, I hunt on the farm to the right of the orange line. The tract of woods is outlined in blue, the area outline in red has been cut down. It almost makes me want to cry. In a few years the state farm is going to be made into a state park for all the rich land owners in the area to ride their horses...so no more hunting. That day I may actually cry.

 

[Art Eatman]

Over the next few years, the brush will come back. There will soon be more food for critters, as open areas are more productive than forest floors. I'd expect some short-term reduction in carrying capacity for squirrels. The deer will be more likely to browse in the cut-over area than in the adjacent state land.

 

[dirtykid]

A "State-Employee Only" hunting area ??,, Never even knew such a thing exist's !! IMHO you were SPOILED ! It is unfortunate that it just didnt get turned into a public-hunting area,where everybody could hunt Instead of "Horse-club" exclusive,,, (we have them around here too) Obviously this change didnt happen over-night and more than likely there were public-opinion meetings or county board meetings that this was brought up at, I keep track of EVERY city-council AND county-board meeting-minutes to catch any such shananigans that could slip-thru un-noticed !

 

[HOOfan_1]

When I started hunting the farm about 23 years ago, the "field" that is at the bottom left, with the C shaped blue line around it was a completely open field. This entire field as well as the woods around it were a dump at one time. Now that field is mostly overgrown with conifers. THICK as fur on a dog. Very hard to walk around or see game in there.

I know it might actually benefit deer hunting, but I think it will severly negatively impact turkeys. They seem to like heavily wooded hardwood areas. 99% of what was cut down was hardwood. The area north of the organge line and the aread I described above in the blue 'C' are mostly conifers. The woods to the left of that area is also thick conifers. The only hardwoods left are along the creek bottom.

 

[Art Eatman]

Back not quite fifty years ago, Intl Paper Co. bought a bunch of woodlands in east Texas and set about clearing hardwood and replanting for pulpwood pine. Locals were upset at the loss of habitat for hunting.

One day a letter arrived at the IPCo office, with a poem:

You got the money,
We got the time.
You cut the hardwoods,
We burn the pine.

There was much less clear-cutting, after that. Islands of hardwoods were left, enough for food and cover for critters.

 

[Cob]

I go to elementary school classrooms on occasion, and like to ask the question" "Is it good or bad to cut a tree down?" and ironically every hand in the room goes up and says BAAADDD....

Then i ask them, Where do you live? Do you live in a house? Is this Bad?
Then, where do you eat? do you eat at a table? is this bad? where do you get the dishes and cups you eat on from?... From cabinets? Are the cabinets made out of wood? Then I ask them to look at their desk, at the paper lying on it.... The i open the "Tree House", and show them approximately 400 items that come just from the resins, cellulose gum, and sap of the tree, including cleaners, medicines, candies, syrups, food they eat, plastics, toothpaste, milk shakes, hotdogs, bicycle tires, etc... Most of it blows their mind, They do not have clue... I wish i could have visited your school...I have made a few students stand up from their wooden seat, and sit on the ground momentarily while i made the point.

On Private land, the decision to harvest is that of the landowner, and the socio-economic good that it does is astounding, once the wood reaches it's final destination.

The property hopefully will be managed in a method that is sustainable for both wood and wildlife... They left a SMZ around the creek for water quality, and it appears the parallel lines on the map show active management in the past (planted or thinned trees) so i suspect it is managed in a sustainable manner already... Use the change in landscape to your advantage, as best you can, many wildlife species are resilient, and game species will only be temporarily affected. In a couple years, once the vegetation is thicker, & over 10' high, game will actually increase on the area, because forage and browse is much closer to ground...

I have actually heard people talk about how bad it was to kill a cow, as they were munching on a hamburger from McDonalds... There is not much difference...

 

[buck460XVR]

HOOfan_1, I ain't tryin' to be a smart azz, cause I've been in the same boat as you are in, but............It's not deforestation, it's called forest management. I've hunted large parcels of public land for 45 years. Just this spring while turkey hunting I went to hunt a large Oak Ridge that has held turkeys for years, only to find it had been cut last fall. This has happened probably at least once every year in that 45 years. When I was young, it used to pizz me off to no end thinking the hunting was ruined there forever. Wasn't long tho, and I found myself hanging my tree stands close to these same areas I had previously considered ruined. I also found most of my grouse and woodcock along the edges of these cuts. Mature trees, other than mast trees do little for wildlife, unless you're a woodpecker. Cutting and regrowth in areas of little agriculture is a boon for most other wildlife. While I hate seeing mast trees cut, forestry practices of clear-cutting have changed. Most forest managers leave a few productive mast trees for regeneration and wildlife now as opposed to the total clear-cutting of years ago. I'm fortunate, I hunt large areas of public land and they checkerboard the cutting. This allows one to have both mature forest and regeneration at various stages all in the same relative area.

That said, if you have had a premo spot all to yourself for years, without having to pay a cent to hunt it.....consider yourself very lucky and be thankful you had the opportunity. I tell my hunting friends all the time, if it ain't yours, someday it's gonna change. If it's private land you have access to, odds are, someday the owner will sell, or his grandkids will decide they don't want you hunting there anymore. If it's public land, someday someone else will discover your hotspot or they will cut your favorite treestand down. While I feel for your loss, I also consider you fortunate for the opportunity you had.

Back not quite fifty years ago, Intl Paper Co. bought a bunch of woodlands in east Texas and set about clearing hardwood and replanting for pulpwood pine. Locals were upset at the loss of habitat for hunting.

One day a letter arrived at the IPCo office, with a poem:

You got the money,
We got the time.
You cut the hardwoods,
We burn the pine.

There was much less clear-cutting, after that. Islands of hardwoods were left, enough for food and cover for critters.

As I said earlier, clear-cutting practices and forest management have changed greatly over the years. I doubt very much that a letter to a major paper company suggesting vigilante criminal acts had much to do with them managing their property for profit. I certainly wouldn't advocate such a practice, as it is not "the high road" that the majority of law abiding hunters take. I'd just find another place to hunt or go back and wait for the game to return.

 

[Art Eatman]

buck, I'm fully aware of changes in forest management, although I don't pretend expertise. But at the time, IPCo was doing total clearcut. No hardwood islands. Replanting was solely with pulpwood pine.

This was not just "a tract". It was many tens of thousands of acres across several east Texas counties. It impacted a local hunting culture of thousands of people.

And when I say "clearcut", think "pool table" or "parking lot".

 

[buck460XVR]

buck, I'm fully aware of changes in forest management, although I don't pretend expertise. But at the time, IPCo was doing total clearcut. No hardwood islands. Replanting was solely with pulpwood pine.

This was not just "a tract". It was many tens of thousands of acres across several east Texas counties. It impacted a local hunting culture of thousands of people.

And when I say "clearcut", think "pool table" or "parking lot".

I know exactly what old clear-cutting practices were back then Art. I lived thru them too. I live in an area where both woodlands and the Wisconsin River is deeply influenced by the paper industry. Land managed purely for profit and whole ecosystems, native plants and wildlife be damned. Many of the Oak Savannahs that once dominated this area were replaced by pure stands of Non-Native Red Pine. Water quality downstream decimated by discharge. Thank God priorities have changed.

I wasn't trying to be overly critical of your post Art. IMHO, intentional or not, posting of how illegal acts can positively influence ones hunting(whether it be criminal destruction of private property or the shooting of protected species) by moderators of a major forum like THR, to some, can seem like an endorsement. I was just trying to make it clear that the majority of us do not think of it that way.

 

[Cob]

I was not trying to "bash" the post either, just trying to educate a bit on typical forest mgt. strategies.. I am a Hunter and Forester ( the two fit nicely together), used to work with IP CO, Weyerhaeuser, now work with state of Florida... I've received some prestigious awards thru Forestry, including SAF's Young Forester of Year- (FL-2008), Tree Farm Inspector of year (FL), and will be receiving "National Tree Farm Inspector of year" in August 2011, in New Mexico... I received a BS in Forestry, Wildlife Mgt. from MSU in 2000. I'm not trying to brag, (just listing credentials) - I have tried my best to do the "right thing" for integrated forest management and wildlife management in a multiple resource management strategy, and have worked on literally millions of acres in 3 states now.

Now days, clearcuts are supposed to be 160 acres or less, visual and environmental impacts are supposed to be minimalized, water quality issues have to be addressed before timber harvesting takes place, and endangered wildlife species are addressed as needed. Unfortunately, Profits and maximized timber production often rank higher in mgt. objectives than wildlife.

There are strategies the landowners can use to benefit wildlife thru routine forestry activities... If you get a chance, try to become involved with the landowner adjacent to state property you routinely hunt... Offer to help with land mgt in any way possible, in a trade off for hunting priveleges... You may find it works to your advantage for years to come, and if the state land is going to change into a park, it's also possible that there will be no hunting allowed there anymore... private land adjacent to no-hunting state land can be a dream to hunt.

 

[Cob]

& btw... if the scale on the photograph really is 500', and the greenhouses/ hog barns/ chicken houses, whatever the buildings are in the southwest corner of the photo are, they are a little over 400' feet long -then the area in red is no where near 250 acres...

Just from a quick visual estimation, its only about 115 acres in the bigger clearcut, which is less than the 160 acre clearcuts typical of sustainable forest mgt...

 

[HOOfan_1]

I know perfectly well what the wood is used for, the family of my father's grandmother made a fortune in lumber. That doesn't prevent me from wishing this hadn't been done. It will likely ruin turkey hunting there. Probably better for deer hunting, but unlike most hunters in Virginia, I am not head over heels in love with deer hunting.

Yes they left a riparian buffer along the creek bed, otherwise it was clear cut. Not a single tree remains in that red area I outlined.

BTW, I said the area in BLUE was +/- 250 acres and they cut roughly 60% of that..so that would be ~150 acres. The long structures that the blue line cuts through are Tyson Chicken houses and every bit of 400+ feet long.

 

[Cob]

Again, your thought process is not quite on track, and you have incorrectly "bought into" the myth that a clear-cut area is some kind of a biological desert... the turkey hunting will only get better... more new vegetation growth on the ground increases insect diversity, plant seed diversity, available cover, and helps create a better situation for young turkeys...
Every major forestry college and government wildlife agency agrees with this, including the ones in your home state of VA...

Turkeys usually select areas with dense brush, tall grass and fallen tree tops (ie. recent clear cuts) for nesting
http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/habita...ts/eastern-wild-turkey-habitat-management.asp

Quote: "While a clearcut removes all canopy cover and is unattractive for a short period of time, it is an effective method for creating habitat for a variety of wildlife species. Animals that eat insects, such as turkeys, and those that eat annual and perennial plants, such and deer, thrive in recently clearcut areas. Many creatures also find shelter from weather and predators in the low growing grasses, bushes and briar thickets that follow this type of harvest. In addition, clearcutting is an important forest management tool because it can be used to create edges - areas where two habitat types or two ages of the same habitat meet. Because edges provide easy access to more than one habitat, they usually have more diverse wildlife communities than large blocks of a single habitat."
from: https://www.ncforestry.org/WEBPAGES/FOREST MANAGEMENT/FORESTMANAGEMENTINDEX.htm

There's really nothing you can do or could have done about the clear-cut situation, & crying won't help... I suggest getting over the visual shock of the change in landscape, changing your attitude, researching the subject a bit more, and modifying your hunting techniques to take advantage of the overall situation... Once you do this, you willl have a more successful & rewarding hunt in the future... Lot's of hunter's i know specifically hunt turkeys on field edges, recently clear-cut or recently burned over areas, and have a much better season than those who do not, myself included... the edges of the red are not something to avoid, that's probably where you need to be hunting next year

 

[HOOfan_1]

We shall see....this area was already crawling with turkey. You can bet for the rest of this season they are gone though...as the logging is still going on.

 

[Art Eatman]

buck, no problem. But folks get fixated on the profit vs. habitat thing and don't commonly think of the impact on cultures. In the IPCo deal, a heckuva lot of those families were descended from the earliest settlers, from back in pre-Republic times. They're well known, historically, to readily get a bit cranky when disturbed.

So, Willie-off-the-pickle-boat comes in waving corporate papers around, and before long there's blowback.

Push on the right buttons on folks long enough and hard enough and you get Egypt/Tunisia/Libya/Syria...

My grandfather bought a worn-out patch of dirt in 1939. 150 acres outside of Austin. By the end of WW II, the gullies were filled, the cockleburs were gone and most of the mesquite as well. I learned to plow on the contour to prevent erosion. Learned about carrying capacity for cattle, and about rotating pastures. Finally, during the 1970s, we got attacked by residential subdivisions and the tax man, so we sold out. Lotsa changes in those forty years that I was around the place, and what changes we made, I think, were for the better.

A good bit of forestry around my wife's home in south Georgia, but I don't think many of these folks could spell habitat if you spotted them the h-a-b.

 

[Cob]

Art, I must say that i was surprised as well that THR moderator would use language that seemed to support Arson. I tried to dismiss it as maybe i was misreading it

I'm a wildland firefighter as well, and FL has sent crews in the past 1-2 months to TX to battle fires. As you are probably aware in your home state, over 2500 square miles has burned in TX this year, with 2 firefighter deaths, hundreds of homes and properties destroyed...Many of those fires were either accidentally or intentionally set by people...& i'm leaving in the morning, will be spending the next 8 - 10 days in South Ga, working on a 44,000 acre wildfire east of Fargo, in the Okefenokee swamp, that's heading to FL.

I would change the Poem to read: "you burn the pine, you do the time"...

Gov. Rick Perry (R) acknowledged the problem this week, saying he would like to see the Legislature increase the maximum state penalty for arson from 30 years to life in prison.

 

[Art Eatman]

Cob, the point is that when a narrow focus is brought in and strongly interferes with a local culture, there can readily be blowback. It's not a matter of my supporting anything; it's a matter of facing reality as to human behavior.

 

[WNC Seabee]

I hunt on a State farm which only state employees can hunt on.

This is what I have an issue with well beyond the forest management.

I'm really sorry that YOUR exclusive club is being turned over to some other exclusive club. Public land is just that, public. Just because you draw a paycheck from the State's coffers shouldn't enshrine you with any extra privilege...

 

[HOOfan_1]

This is what I have an issue with well beyond the forest management.

I'm really sorry that YOUR exclusive club is being turned over to some other exclusive club. Public land is just that, public. Just because you draw a paycheck from the State's coffers shouldn't enshrine you with any extra privilege...

Plenty of jobs have exclusive privileges. Non-government employees can't belong to our Credit Union either...

The land is run by Juvenile Corrections, not the DGIF. If they wanted to make it completely public, then the DGIF would have to take it over, which would be fine with me, instead the DCR takes it over and no one gets to hunt there. Right now Juvenile Corrections runs it, and they issue permits. They require ID, so they know exactly who is hunting there. 3 days out of the week, the only people allowed to hunt there are the guards at the facility...

 

[Art Eatman]

Doesn't look like there's a lot of meat left on this bone.