Dems to "Talk up Gun Rights."

[hillbilly]

First, my comments.

I have an advanced degree and I teach in a college which are typically almost uniformly liberal in outlook and politics.

I was raised in Arkansas during Clinton's terms as governor. I grew up in the South which reflexively voted for Democrats for almost 100 years (mainly because Abraham Lincoln was Republican!).

If anyone should be "the base" of the Democratic party, it should be me.

But after the 1994 AWB, and the Brady Bill, and Brady II, and all the anti-gun measures passed by Dems in the individual states, there is now no way in the deepest pits of burning Hell that I will ever, for the rest of my life, vote for another single Democrat.

It is so strong in me that in local county races, if there are two Democrats running for assistant dog catcher, I refuse to vote in that race so my vote won't go to a Democrat.

That being said, below is the link to the article. Dems are to "talk up" gun rights.

Yeah, I've heard them talk like that before.

hillbilly


Democrats to talk up rights of gun owners

By WILL LESTER
The Associated Press
10/16/2003, 5:19 p.m. CT


WASHINGTON (AP) — Centrist Democrats are urging their candidates — expecially in more conservative states — to talk openly about their support for gun safety laws while telling voters they support the rights of gun owners.


http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news-4/1066343044270270.xml

 

[Mark Tyson]

There are Democrats - both voters and electde officials - who support the right to bear arms. Blind party loyalty will hurt RKBA as much as any gun control law. That said, I'm afriad the party leadership is just trying to fool the hunters and part time shooters into thinking they're safe; it's just the evil "assault weapons" and other "weapons of war" that they want to take away. This could be disastrous if these gun owners are duped. Of course it will only be a matter of time before that Remington 700 becomes a "sniper rifle". And after all, nobody really "needs" to hunt anymore, so why do they deserve to have guns? We need to reach out to the gun dilletantes and hunters somehow.

 

[MuzzleBlast]

Al From, founder and chief executive of the DLC, said when Democrats remain silent, the assumption is that they are hostile to the rights of gun owners.

Yeah, and when they open their decaying, prurient pieholes they remove all doubt!

Bayh cited Arkansas Sen. Mark Pryor, who was at the news briefing on Capitol Hill, as a good example of how Democrats can win in conservative states by talking openly about issues like gun owners' rights, religion, support for the military and family-friendly policies.

Or how sons of long-reigning senators with tons of name recognition and ready-made campaign machines can easily get elected.

"Democrats are not hostile to gun owners, people of faith, the military, those with families or white men," From said.

"The pope isn't Catholic and bears don't crap in the woods. These are just harmful stereotypes."

Woo, nothing like double-talking Democrat spin doctors to get my venom glands a-pumpin'!

 

[Old Fuff]

The Democrat’s new buzz term for the coming election is “Gun safety laws.†Be aware that liberals - which all of the present Democrat presidential candidates are - define the word “safety†much differently then we do. From their perspective “safety†means to prohibit gun owner from possessing anything that isn’t obviously related to hunting or target shooting. Of course the government in Washington would say what did and what didn’t. They support BANS on large-capacity magazines and any autoloader that even slightly looks like a military weapon. They favor forcing gunmakers to add all kinds of features most buyers don’t want to make handguns so safe they can’t be fired quickly in an emergency (and of course they exempt law enforcement officers from this - it’s only for you or me.) We are told all of this nonsense is “for the children.†Apparently cops don’t have any of those. You may have noticed that none of them wants to speak a single word about a federal concealed weapon’s license. They would probably go for bullet/cartridge “fingerprinting†as part of their campaign.

What they hope too do is split the once-a-year duck hunters and bird shooters away from the rest of us and in doing so dilute the “gun vote†that has so deeply frustrated their ambitions.

 

[Detachment Charlie]

Translation

Democrats to gun owners: "Hey, we really understand and guns are great!"
Translation: "Hey, little girl, want a piece of candy?"

 

[emc]

Old Fuff beat me to it. "Gun safety" means something drastically different to gun control nuts than it does to us. Unfortunately, those on the left have done a very good job of spinning the language of politics. How else do they come up with statistics citing gun related deaths of children, when the definition of children includes 18-21 year olds?

FWIW,

emc

 

[Deepdiver]

issues like gun owners' rights, religion, support for the military and family-friendly policies.

..the truth, boys & girls, is that the above issues are the anti-thesis of the democratic party's platform, regardless of what they might say to get elected. To validate this, one only has to look at the policies that they have pushed for the last 50 years at both the state and federal level.

And, ...if the democratic party, as we know it today, had been in power here during the 18th century, the US would still be a British Colony !

 

[Pendragon]

...Democrats for almost 100 years (mainly because Abraham Lincoln was Republican!).

I thought it was because Lincoln wasn't a Democrat.

"The party of Lincoln" <> The party of Clinton

 

[Mute]

WASHINGTON (AP) — Centrist Democrats are urging their candidates — expecially in more conservative states — to talk openly about their support for gun safety laws while telling voters they support the rights of gun owners.

How freaking stupid do they think people are?

 

[hilljack22]

Saw these articles this morning... Along the same idea about the Dems.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200310\NAT20031017a.html

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=127&subid=269&contentid=252103

 

[Bill Hook]

How freaking stupid do they think people are?

A majority of voters register and vote for their party. Need I say more?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The DLC joined with Americans for Gun Safety to sponsor a survey by pollster Mark Penn that looked at the gun issue and voters.

So the DLC joined with an organization that uses "gun safety" as a codeword for gun control to see how that approach works with gun owners and finds that surprisingly it works really well according to the people trying to sell that approach to the DLC.



Little wonder the Dems are getting their butts handed to them on the national level if they are that gullible.

The whole strategy basically assumes that gun owners are too stupid to recognize it if you support the same laws as "gun safety" instead of "gun control.

 

[Dave R]

Recent articles have said that the Dems are not gonna talk guns at all. Now they want to talk "right to bear arms, but with gun safety"?

I wonder if they learned that message from Arnold's big win in CA.

As I understand it, his position was "I support the right for individuals to own arms. I also support the Brady Bill, AWB, etc".

IOW, you can have guns, but I support all the current legislation.

A nice job of straddling the fence. Maybe that's what the Dems are going to try to do, too.

Bottom line is, though, if the Dems gain control, people like Chuck Schumer are going to be the committe heads in the Senate & House. Doesn't matter how moderate or pro-RKBA your Democratic lawmaker is; the anti Dems are going to be the ones controlling legislation.

 

[hillbilly]

I do not have "Party loyalty" of any kind.

I am not a member of any party. Before the 1994 AWB I will admit that I actually voted for Slick Willy in 1992. I hate to admit it, but I did it, okay? I'm not proud of it now, but I did do it.

But after being stamped upon for so many years by Slick Willy and Chuckie Schumer and DiFi and Babs Boxer and Frankie Lautenberg and all the other radid anti-gunners, who all have the "D" out besides their name, there is no way I will ever vote FOR a Democrat again.

Marky Pryor, newest Arkansas senator, is a great example of Democrats.

In his campaign last year, he had two TV ads of himself in camo, toting shotguns in the field, talking about "the rights of sportsmen."

Yeah, we all know what "rights of sportsmen" means.

And check out where Pryor's name shows up on legislation sponsorship lists........................................Say anything to get elected, and then fall right into the leftist's anti-gun lockstep when you get to D.C. And no, I did not vote for Pyor.

I will not ever again vote for any Democrat on any issue. I've been burned by them too many times.

If that means I vote default straight Republican ticket with the spare Independent or Libertarian thrown in there, so be it.

But please understand, I don't vote that way out of "loyalty" to the non-Democrats.

I've been lied to and stabbed in the back by so many Democrats so many times, that I can't stomach to vote for any of them ever again.

In fact, when the race comes up that the non-Democratic candidate is just too foul and loathsome to vote for, I will either not vote, or write in "NO" on my ballot, just to keep from voting for any Democrat again for as long as I live.

hillbilly

 

[Old Fuff]

The official position of the Democrat Party is expressed in the party’s official Platform. That part of the Platform which refers to gun control and firearms issues is quoted below:

(Quote) Strong and Sensible Gun Laws. A shocking level of gun violence on our streets and in our schools has shown America the need to keep guns away from those who shouldn't have them - in ways that respect the rights of hunters, sportsmen, and legitimate gun owners. The Columbine tragedy struck America's heart, but in its wake Republicans have done nothing to keep guns away from those who should not have them.
Democrats believe that we should fight gun crime on all fronts - with stronger laws and stronger enforcement. That's why Democrats fought and passed the Brady Law and the Assault Weapons Ban. We increased federal, state, and local gun crime prosecution by 22 percent since 1992. Now gun crime is down by 35 percent.

Now we must do even more. We need mandatory child safety locks, to protect our children. We should require a photo license I.D., a full background check, and a gun safety test to buy a new handgun in America. We support more federal gun prosecutors, ATF agents and inspectors, and giving states and communities another 10,000 prosecutors to fight gun crime. (End quote)

As I said in a previous post, they may change the package, but they won’t change the contents. So long as its liberal wing controls the party, it would be unwise for gun owners who are serious about their rights to support this party. There are of course individual examples of Democrat legislators and/or candidates who feel differently and do not support the above policy. However they constitute a small minority and have little impact on the party’s stand on the issue.

Any way you cut it, voting for Democrats is voting for ever-more restrictive gun control laws. I understand how this can be a hard choice for some, but what it comes down to is choosing between “their†party or their guns, unless of course they are satisfied to let some official decide what is politically correct for them to possess. Unfortunately under the present circumstances they can’t have both.

 

[Delmar]

How freaking stupid do they think people are?

Bill Clinton was elected twice....

Upchuck Schumer is a Senator, along with the likes of Hillary, Diane Feinstein, Teddy "the swimmer" Kennedy.

Gullibility is rampant at the voting booths. People are elected for their promises of government "protections" from the bad guys and how much money they can take from the treasury to give away.

Most politicians are NOT EVEN close to being anything resembling a statesman. They vote by polls rather than by looking at the Constitution, and have neither the courage or the ability to do what their oath swears them to.

A statement made some time ago in a movie kind of sums it all up.
"I'm a politician, which means I'm a cheat and a liar, and when I'm not kissing babies, I'm stealing their lollipops."

 

[Mark Tyson]

I've been writing to the DNC and the chairman for a while urging them to drop gun control, and telling them I won't send the national party any cash until they do (they won't and I haven't). I won't vote for anyone who wants to confiscate people's guns no matter what letter's behind their name. But the fact remains I'm more of a Democrat on some other important issues, so I stick with them.

Funny thing: there's more liberal republicans than conservative Democrats. With people like Zell Miller leaving the party... I may have to abandon ship and go independent.

I haven't gotten any responses yet, by the way. You'd think they'd at least send a form letter.

 

[makarov1]

The Democrats DO NOT respect the rights of hunters and sportsmen. That fact has been proven with the latest barrage of anti- gun proposals put forth by leading democratic ilk. Hey, duck hunters, you know your prized Remington 1100 you love so much? Well, you better be prepared to kiss your Reminton 1100 goodbye, if the new and improved assault weapons ban ever makes it to W's desk. The Reminton 1100 is one of many hunter's firearms up on the chopping block, as the Democrats take the moral high ground in the quest for "gun safety."

The NRA needs to go on a witch hunt that would make the Salem witch trials look like Michael Moore fielding softball questions from Peter Jennings. The NRA MUST expose the anti-gunners anti- freedom voting records and identify the Democrats, AND any Republicans who may be engaging in double talk. In 2000, gun owners knew about Al Gore's anti-freedom agenda. In 2004, Democratic double talk and spin will attempt to confuse the issue and woo the duck hunters into believing that the Democrats aren't after their weapons. Duck hunters, take one last look at your 1100 in the gun cabinet. If the Democrats ever get their way, one chilly fall day you will reach for it, and it will be gone.

 

[Standing Wolf]

After Snopes Clinton, I'll never so much as consider voting for a representative of the Democratic (sic) party.

 

[AZRickD]

Democrats who say they support constitutional gun rights, want to close some gun loopholes and enforce the current laws, increase their support among all voters and almost break even with Republicans among gun owners.

The question I always ask politicians is "Name three gun laws you would repeal."

That's a challenge rather than a question. But what would you expect from me?

You should see the stammering responses I get, even from moderately pro-RKBA candidates.

Rick
Redefining the playing field.

 

[greyhound]

Hey, I have been an Independent since I turned 18 but I admit I voted for Clinton in '92 and '96 (hey, I thought he "got" young people).

Now, every time I hear "hunting and sport shooters" now I make a mental note to NEVER vote for that person.

And especially Dean right now - I know there is a few of us here (and one guy in particular (wP42?) who seems to only post on Dean related stuff) but elect one of these (at the best) "let the states decide" guys and kiss off the NE [NY, NJ, MD, etc], mid-west [Ohio, Wisc, Missouri, Nebraska, MN[if the leftists win out])and CA (our biggest state).

 

[Monkeyleg]

"Americans for Gun Safety" just released their poll (sample size 830 respondents) to show where the Dem's should go on gun issues.

Care to pick it apart? I've put the .pdf file on my site at http://www.dickbakerphoto.com/gun_poll.pdf

Have at it.

 

[Freedspeak]

A sorry question

".

Democrats are not hostile to gun owners, people of faith, the military, those with families or white men," From said

Doesn't this sound a bit racesit to anybody?

Or dose he get a pass because hes a Democrat?

I didn't realise the BOR had racial quotas/limits!

 

[w4rma]

It wasn't Lincoln that turned the South Democratic or that caused the Civil War. IMHO, it was Republican economic policy which favored North-Eastern big buisnesses and the monopolies/oligopolies of the time (Standard Oil, Railroad tycoons, bankers/moneylenders) over Southern farms and smaller buisnesses. And, the North-Eastern carpetbaggers who came down to the South to buy up whatever they could at fire-sale prices and rip folks off after the war, didn't help North-South relations either.

 

[JoshM]

According to the AGS poll provided by Monkeyleg [Thanks Monkeyleg], the AGS considers the GOP 's weaknesses on gun issues as being:

1/ Allowing the gun show "loophole" to continue.

2/ Support for assault weapons.

3/ Taking a strong stance on the Second Amendment.

For the Democrats to exploit these Republican policy weaknesses will require running arguments/policy counter to the AGS "gun safety" spin suggested in the poll. That being, closing the gun show "loophole" with new laws - which will impact on the law abiding primarily, banning "assault weapons" - which are hardly ever used in crime, and limiting the right of the Second Amendment.

I just don't see how the Democrats can campaign on the above 3 issues without it looking like gun control ?

I was surprised not to see more polling on the impact of CCW legislation, considering it's a very contentious gun issue. For Democrats, it is going to be diffcult to address issues such as national reciprocity for CCW while also putting on the spin of "rights and responsibilites" for gun ownership.
I'll guess they will avoid the issues they can't control.

Democratic State party chairman in ID and MT [Bob Ream?] have been on the frontlines and understand the impact of DNC anti gun policy on their voters. The VPC/Brady has responded by simply arguing to stand firm on gun control and hopefully suburban voters will fill the gap.

For many voters who live in the suburbs the gun issue isn't exactly a plank issue for deciding their vote.