Denial/Delay on NICS... FFL's POV

[ieszu]

I have a quick question for you all.... I am an FFL, and I was wondering what other FFL's usually say to people who are denied on a NICS check....

I usually tell them that they are delayed, and should come back in 3 days to see if the NICS has finished processing... I usually never see those people again. Of course, I do not charge them for the gun yet.

Alternatively, I let them know they have been denied, and that it could be a computer error... here is the sheet explaining the process for an appeal, I will help them fill it out if they wish, but most times they just leave and I never see them again (nor do other shops in the area, I have a good relationship with them all, we keep each other up to date on shady characters)...

What do you guys generally say?

 

[waterhouse]

Alternatively, I let them know they have been denied, and that it could be a computer error... here is the sheet explaining the process for an appeal, I will help them fill it out if they wish,

That's what I do.

 

[rdhood]

I am not an FFL, but am very familiar with the process:

I don't know how to be optimistic about a denial. Even if they are completely innocent, it is often going to take *at least* 6 months to clear up whatever produced the denial.

Here is what NOT to do: don't treat the customer like a criminal. There is about a 15% chance he is not. If you treat him like a criminal, you won't ever get his business.



If it were me, I would set expectations:
0) If the customer did not use a SS#, suggest it. A common name without a social security # could lead to a denial.

1) Appeal the denial (one week) ... they will request fingerprints
2) Send fingerprints and SS# and wait (up to three or more months)
It might end here. If it was a "common name" type of problem, then his fingerprints won't show up in a search and the customer will be cleared for purchase.
3) After finding out which organization incorrectly reported a disqualifying record, get said organization to fix record (1 day to years, depending on severity of mistake and willingness of local authorities to fix that which they have screwed up).
4) fix state records (1 week to 4 or more months)
5) fix FBI and NICS database ( 6 weeks). Should be done AFTER fixing state record, or there will be an additional delay.

 

[ieszu]

thanks... just wanted to see what other FFL's do as a matter of standard practice....

 

[41magsnub]

As a non-FFL if I were denied for any reason I would want to know that I was denied right away, not lied to about a fictional delay. That would be the last time I would be seen in your store.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Once in awhile, the denied person says something along the lines of, "Oh. Guess I should've paid those speeding tickets," and scurries out with a red face.

 

[Novus Collectus]

Just about four years ago I put my shotgun in hock and a few months later I go to get it out. The NICS check put me on a three day hold so I come back next week....same thing.
Next time I go back I am denied and they give me the information about appeal. The guy at the pawn shop was sympathetic, though looked like he didn't believe me when I said I will win the appeal. The people behind the counter said they have never seen a denial overturned yet.
I was incensed. I applied, I waited, I found what the problem was, I drove 80 miles to a courthouse to get the records they were having trouble accessing....twice..... and I sent the FBI/NICS a few letters.
......it took well over a year before the appeal was approved and I was put on the VAF (voluntary appeal file).
During this time, I applied with the state of MD for a "collector's designation" (requires a background check and allows more than one handgun purchase a month) and recieved it, and I applied for a C&R FFL and got one. The MD state police and the ATF had their crap together, but the FBI took four times as long (they had all discovered the same problem and I had to show them the court records too).

When I went back into the pawn shop with the appeal certificate (they send you this certificate you give to the dealer when you win the appeal for the dealer's records or something) I got to look at their shocked faces as they gave me back the shotgun.

The pawn shop was cool about it. They charge pawn fees by the month I think and since I had paid for the initial month when I first got denied and they said I did not have to keep paying, they did not charge me for over a year's worth of fees.

 

[AndyC]

I was recently denied - well, technically the application was "cancelled" and I was told the reason was that I hadn't yet lived in Texas for 90 days. I've appealed this as I've been here for 2 1/2 years; sure hope it doesn't take a year to get this sorted out

Back on-topic - if I were the guy who was denied, I'd like the FFL to explain my choices; I know that the denial is not their fault, but I would appreciate advice as to what steps to take.

 

[12Bravo20]

I have been denied and always sent fingerprints with a letter asking why within a couple of days of getting denied. Normally would take about 3 weeks to get a letter back saying that I was approved. For Dealers, suggest that people send in fingerprints right away when they write to the FBI/NICS asking for a reason for the denial. This will speed things up for them. I did the VAF and don't have any problems anymore (as long as my dear brother stays out of trouble or in jail). When I worked in a pawn shop, I would always try to explain to people why they could have gotten delayed/denied and the steps to appeal a denial. You can usually tell the shady characters by how they start acting nervous (at least in a pawn shop).

 

[ieszu]

I apologize for how I might have sounded.... I always tell them if they get denied, but when a customer gets delayed, I explain what might have happened, suggest ways to try and speed it up, and usually they never come back after the 3 day wait.... I have actually only had 2 people come back, and they have both been good customers ever since. The rest must either have been actual criminals trying to see if they would get around the law, or possible plants by the NYPD.... I am just north of there