Denver Post article - Hit The Poll

[Spyvie]

Here's a rather lengthy and somewhat well balanced article about concealed weapons and guns in general in today's Denver Post. Copy and past of course...

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_9138675

EDIT: the URL has already changed once, if it happens again the link should take you to the front page, where the article is featured prominently.

Hopefully the “breaking news” link will remain active, if it moves I'll edit this post. I think the page is too long and complex to completely post it here

One part I definitely don't think is accurate...

"Conventional wisdom has held that America is a gun culture and Americans love their guns. Yet national surveys consistently show 75 percent to 80 percent public support for much tougher gun laws, from registration and tracking of all guns to mandatory safety classes."

Help me prove that wrong, hit the included poll! Current results (@ 5:00AM local time) already contradict the quoted text.

How do you feel about Colorado's current gun laws? (Read related story.)

Too lenient - 20.93 %

Too strict - 45.34 %

Just right - 27.90 %

Don't know - 5.813 %

 

[Doggy Daddy]

Done. We're ahead.

How do you feel about Colorado's current gun laws? (Read related story.)

Total Votes = 95
Too lenient
20 Votes, or 21.05 %
Too strict
46 Votes, or 48.42 %
Just right
24 Votes, or 25.26 %
Don't know
5 Votes, or 5.263 %

 

[CBS220]

That was an excellently written article with what seem to be mostly accurate facts. I debate the veracity of the one quote, but it was very well balanced.

 

[cambeul41]

Good article.

How do you feel about Colorado's current gun laws? (Read related story.)

Total Votes = 177
Too lenient = 18.64 %
Too strict = 55.36 %
Just right = 19.20 %
Don't know = 6.779 %

 

[Big45]

From the story:

"My point is not to take away people's guns," Bederman said, "but to make sure that people who shouldn't have them don't have access."

:banghead: I hate, hate, hate when this phrase is used. Everytime this phrase gets used by whatever gunbanner of the month type they ALWAYS leave out the last, critical part: "My point is not to take away people's guns," Bederman said, "but to make sure that people who shouldn't have them don't have access." (And in order to do that we want to end the legal market for firearms and end private ownership)

Public opinion fails to create legislative compromises, though, because gun-control advocates are scattered and underfunded. The gun-rights lobby, by contrast, is passionate, bankrolled and organized around a tangible hobby,

That grassroots intensity also pays big political dividends, said Jens Ludwig, a professor at the University of Chicago who often testifies in legislative meetings — where he finds the room packed with an overwhelming majority of gun-rights supporters.

"Politicians look at this and make a calculation that it's not in their interest to force this issue," he said.

Although Senate sponsor Sue Windels, D-Arvada, considered the measure "hardly earth-shaking," the gun lobby quickly mobilized and flooded her and other lawmakers with e-mails and phone calls.

This is why we win people.

Call.
Email.
Write.
Show up.
Buy guns.
Have babies.

I love being in this fight right now

 

[Blackbeard]

What an utterly pointless poll. How many readers actually know what Colorado's current gun laws are? I don't. It's probably intended to garner the vote of soccer moms who see people getting shot on the news and conclude that the gun laws are too lenient.

 

[Spyvie]

Colorado's gun laws are pretty good. Shall issue, open carry, and concealed carry in a car without a permit. The problem is many local jurisdictions, Denver chief among them, have passed more restrictive laws.

Here's a very well written post from the user comments section of the article. I'm posting it here because she said it much better than I ever could.

Yea Biker Chick!

The USA is not a Banana Republic.

That said, there are certain traditions and rights that are distinguishing of this remarkable Republic. Key among those is the right to maintain firearms in households, for personal and family protection. In addition, guns have played a key role in sportsman activities for more than five hundred years in the USA.

For reasons that are not easily understood, we have fostered a breed of criminal that uses guns in the process of committing crimes. At the same time, we have a sub-culture of seemingly fear-based gun-haters. Neither group is useful.

Law-enforcement officers cannot be everywhere, all the time. Properly armed, well trained citizens are a stabilizing element in our culture. Thanks to the sensible attitude that prevails in the Colorado concealed-carry training classes, gun-safety awareness is growing rapidly in the Columbine state.

Rich Wyatt did an admirable job teaching the class for me and others in his shop (GunSmoke) in Wheat Ridge. Anyone who is fearful about the seeming rise in gun permits is well advised to pay the fee and sit in Wyatt's class, or any of the others offered in our state.

Less than five years ago, Colorado's gun usage laws changed dramatically - as did similar laws in the 50 states. The motivation for the changes was based upon a plethora of court cases. It seems that authorities, to include many local elected sheriffs, had become accustomed to denying concealed carry permits - and we-the-people were not pleased.

The courts agreed with the people, and Colorado became a shall issue state - while continuing to reject concealed-carry applications from convicted felons, folks who have been convicted of domestic abuse crimes, etc.

The seeming recent surge in permits is actually explained by the backlog of applicants who had lawful reasons for the permit, but were denied by overly restrictive sheriffs.

The reporters in this piece have done a good job toward myth-busting. We are living in troubled-times. Firearms are not causative. The process required to successfully obtain a concealed-carry permit is extensive, usually taking three months - AFTER extensive preparation and training. Every applicant is exhaustively screened by the U.S. DOJ-FBI, based upon ten-digit fingerprints. The five-year permit is renewable.

At the risk of repeating, the Biker Chick is delighted that more and more Colorado citizens are willing to become trained, and armed. Think about it - the more trained-armed citizens, the less the crooks control YOUR environment. Ms. Jeanne Assam stopped a certain continued massacre in Colorado Springs. Thank God she and the cadre of VOLUNTEER citizens were armed and available in that church that fateful day.

Those that are unconvinced can learn much by chatting with Jeanne Assam, or Rich Wyatt, or one of the thousands of firearm safety training experts in Colorado.
..

Sally Flack
Joined: Dec 4
Points: 922 Posted by Sally Flack (aka BikerChick)
at 5:46 AM on Sunday May 4

 

[Dravur]

Didnt care about the poll,

but the article was well written, presented both sides and I think presented our side in much more positive fashion than the antis. I must admit, I am shocked they allowed this at the Denver Post. I would have bet money on an article from them being foaming at the mouth anti.

 

[pappy]

Results when I hit it

Here's what it looks like after I voted thhis morning.

Too lenient
17.81 %
Too strict
54.15 %
Just right
22.56 %
Don't know
5.463 %

 

[Blackbeard]

Colorado's gun laws are pretty good. Shall issue, open carry, and concealed carry in a car without a permit.

Sounds like they're getting close to "just right", but they need local preemption. Do they allow NFA? Have waiting periods? Any restricted carry zones?

 

[csmkersh]

Thanks. I've sent the link to a group of e-mail friends. Going to post it to another gun group later today.
​

 

[Old Fuff]

"Conventional wisdom has held that America is a gun culture and Americans love their guns. Yet national surveys consistently show 75 percent to 80 percent public support for much tougher gun laws, from registration and tracking of all guns to mandatory safety classes."

This could easily be, depending on where the poll is taken, and how the questions are worded. Poll-takers often get the results that whoever is paying for the poll, or their own agenda, want to see.

Ask the newspaper to run the following poll and see how they respond.

"Should the news media be legally restrained from publishing stories about shootings at schools or universities to discourage future copycat shooters?

And see how they react...

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I voted. And I voted "too strict". I lived in Wyoming, a neighboring state to Colorado, for many years. We always wondered what had gone so tragically wrong past our southern border.

I do remember cruisin' back towards Denver from Vail in the spring of 1997 in a convoy of cars. I was driving a mini-van, skis on top, and a .45 in the vehicle. As we dropped into west Denver it became obvious that the CHP had laid a trap & was gonna bust everybody they could. I had cause to believe that if I got stopped, SHTF, would occur. Past history, Wyo plate, known attitude of CHP, etc. Had a helluva time slipping the noose. And I sincerely hope that the CHP officer has egg on his face to this day for losing a mini-van.

In Wyoming the term "Greenies" was perjurative long before the current eco-fad. It referred to the license plate color of Colorado.

900F

 

[GunDoctor]

Looks like we're getting somewhere on this poll.

How do you feel about Colorado's current gun laws? (Read related story.)

Total Votes = 541
Too lenient
17.00 %
Too strict
54.34 %
Just right
23.10 %
Don't know
5.545 %

 

[romma]

Too lenient
127 Votes, or 17.86 %
Too strict
393 Votes, or 55.27 %
Just right
151 Votes, or 21.23 %
Don't know
40 Votes, or 5.625 %


Done!

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

Colorado has state pre-emption on firearms laws, upheld by the Colorado Supreme Court in 2003, challenged by Denver, they lost. I also agree that Colorado is a good place for gun owners, fairly relaxed and supportive of the gun owner demographic.

 

[REB]

Too lenient
18.49 %
Too strict
55.48 %
Just right
20.71 %
Don't know
5.302 %

 

[Pilot]

I found this to be a bit ironic.

"Clearly, some people have the need to carry," said Ceasefire's Mauser, who then added a wry aside. "With some of the threats I get, I wonder if I should be one of them."

Mauser, the most visible local advocate for gun control, hasn't seen much action at the Capitol this legislative session, despite a Democratic majority.

 

[Eightball]

How do you feel about Colorado's current gun laws? (Read related story.)
Total Votes = 872
Too lenient
17.88 %
Too strict
56.19 %
Just right
20.64 %
Don't know
5.275 %

 

[Patrick123]

Latest as of 9:50 am

Total Votes = 879
Too lenient
17.74 %
Too strict
56.31 %
Just right
20.47 %
Don't know
5.460 %

 

[BruceRDucer]

as of my post

With 1047 votes in, I voted Too Strict. Here's the results so far:

Too lenient
17.19 %
Too strict
57.21 %
Just right
20.43 %
Don't know
5.157 %

 

[Standing Wolf]

Firearms are not causative.

Aw, darn! I hate it when people write intelligent, logical, reasonable stuff.

 

[Tob]

Done

 

[armedandsafe]

How do you feel about Colorado's current gun laws? (Read related story.)

Total Votes = 1624
Too lenient
17.05 %
Too strict
59.48 %
Just right
18.90 %
Don't know
4.556 %

16:00 local

Pops

 

[Galen]

Colorado has state pre-emption on firearms laws, upheld by the Colorado Supreme Court in 2003, challenged by Denver, they lost. I also agree that Colorado is a good place for gun owners, fairly relaxed and supportive of the gun owner demographic.

XD-40 Shooter, this isn't quite correct. The a November 2004 ruling by Judge Meyers kept the Denver ban in place (though modified).
Here is a copy of the ruling.

The good news is that Denver changed it's law in January 2007. This means it is legal to own an AR-15, FNFAL, HK91, MAK90, etc, as long as you do not insert a 21+ round magazine. :banghead: