Depleted Uranium pistol rounds?

[Habeed]

So I'm watching the B movie "war" with Jet Li. Jet Li plays this assassin who uses "depleted uranium bullets with a titanium casing". While I rolled my eyes at it (what on earth would be the point to make the brass out of titanium?) it got me wondering.

Could you make depleted uranium pistol rounds? I would assume they are not commercially available, but in principle it doesn't sound impossible. I'm not familiar enough with guns to recognize the pistol Jet Li is using in the movie, so I'll assume it's using 9mm cartridges. The bullet would weigh between 5-10 grams depending on the exact cartridge.

Assuming the round is pure depleted uranium, then you'd need between 5 and 10 grams of it to make one. United Nuclear sells 5 grams of U-238 for $59. So it would cost $100 a shot...but the materials are available.

The other difficulty is the melting point : uranium melts at 1130 degrees celcius, versus 327 C for lead. But I would guess that a tool that can melt metal at that temperature is commercially available.

Would there be any advantages of using such an exotic metal? They use it in anti-tank rounds because the metal is self-sharpening. Presumably a properly molded pistol round could be made to pierce armor more effectively. (though whether or not it would be better than existing AP rounds is another question)

I'm not even considering doing this, I just want to know if it's possible. There wouldn't even be a point to it - as the website Box of Truth finds out time and time again, if you know you're going to a gunfight, bring a rifle.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Depleted uranium rounds are good for punching through metal. But you still need enough mass and speed in the round itself to do the job. Those are two things you don't get from pistol rounds. So I suppose it is possible, but I am not sure why you would want to. There really would be no added value above a standard lead/copper bullet, since pistol rounds really cannot deliver enough bullet mass or velocity to take advantage of the uranium unique properties.

As for if it's possible, it really just comes down to constructing the bullet. Uranium has a Mohs hardness of 6, while steel is around 4-5. So you would need to do the same sort of soft cover around the uranium core as you would with any other penetrator bullet. Titanium also has a Mohs hardness of 6, so that would not be a very good coating. But I suppose one could do it with the right tools and the ability to melt and work the metals. But it all goes back to why would you. Uranium in a pistol round is pointless, and titanium as a cover over the uranium is essentially just as hard so would be worthless as a rifling-engaging substance.

 

[Deus Machina]

Possible, but horribly impractical.

The bullets would be heavy enough that the velocity would be exceedingly low and, as said above, would probably not penetrate as well because of the massive loss in speed from such a small round. Notice DU is also mostly fire from weapons far larger than a civilian will ever use.

Also, IIRC, depleted uranium projectiles aren't solid--they would not engrave into the rifling, and would burn it out pretty quickly if you tried. They would need a sabot or driving band of softer material.

Plus, armor-piercing rounds made for handguns are illegal to manufacture, on the civilian level. So even if anyone does make any, you won't get to play with them.

 

[Shadow 7D]

No, I mean you could, but they would be illegal for almost everybody to own, as they would be AP rounds, and the second reason would be this, why???

It's a pistol, it still isn't going to pack enough umph to punch a penetrator through something, yeah, you will get more, but still, it will be a pistol.

 

[zxcvbob]

CAUTION: The following post includes ridiculous loading data as a purely intellectual exercise. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

If I recall correctly, uranium is about twice the density of lead, so I played around a little with Quickload. Take a .357 Magnum, for example. A typical 158 grain SWC bullet sintered from uranium should weigh about 300 grains. A 20 gram bullet (308.6 grains) loaded with 13.8 grains of Lil'Gun and fired from a 6" revolver should yield about 1150 fps, or about 920 ft·lbs of energy. Note, this is loaded to CIP pressures, not SAAMI.

A Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine and overloaded a bit is interesting; a 12 gram bullet patterned after the Lee 311-093-1R could be launched at 1520 fps for 950 ft·lbs, again using Lil'Gun powder (15.2 grains)

Of course DU is specifically mentioned in U.S. federal law as being an illegal material for pistol bullets, so there you go.

 

[CapnMac]

DU is used in military weapons to take advantage of the physics that occurs in rods around 1:7 ratios. Since this makes for an odd shape, using a material almost twice as dense as lead, yet significantly harder, makes a lot of sense. Add in that DU is pyrophoric, and you get "secondary" effects in military application.

Now, if we had some sort of sensible, uniform laws on ammo, it might be interesting to sabot DU in other rounds. Which might really fire up arguments on the utility of rounds like .25acp or .32acp.

 

[Shadow 7D]

No, you wouldn't, there have been extensive research about flechette rounds, and they are little rounds that penetrate well but cause little damage, as, get this, they are little rounds, now the PYROPHORIC, (love the word and the idea) is a byproduct of the physics of the energy/pressure that is exerted between the two dissimilar metals/materials/hardness, not useful for personnel, and I doubt a pistol has the energy to do it.

My point is, you can get a standard flechette to penetrate a vest fired saboted from most pistols, BUT, and this is a kicker,

when the hell are you going to use any of this as a guy on the street, lets talk applications here, anybody up for some DU brown bear hunting, lets go for the smallest gun by largest bear takes home the trophy.....

 

[litman252]

I'm taking my 25acp to Alaska latter this month. Just made a custom IWB holster for it. No bears under 11' or bust! It's a good Jennings!




sorry guys, I could not resist

Tony

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

i hear depleted uranium pistol rounds are made by elvis in chernobyl.

 

[Roughneck08]

There sure is a lot of thought going into this thread! Highly entertaining guys.

 

[Fishslayer]

It would have to be a sabot round of some sort. Ti casing would play hob with a carbon steel barrel...

 

[Shadow 7D]

Hey Tony, PM Kodiak, I'm sure he can help set you and your jennings up with a good sized bruin

 

[Oceans]

Depleted uranium rounds?, real good way to get some nice cancers and chromosomal damage.

 

[rbernie]

I'm not even considering doing this, I just want to know if it's possible.

That's OK, and we had some good discussion around the notion. However....

Of course DU is specifically mentioned in U.S. federal law as being an illegal material for pistol bullets, so there you go.

Pretty much, and why this topic now needs to slowly sink into the sunset before anyone thinks that someone on THR is actually contemplating the notion.....