Derringer carry?

[Pyro]

I've been carrying a two shot .38 special derringer for quite some time, even got one of the members here to make a GREAT pocket holster for it. Problem is ammo (no...not because I carry only two shots), since the barrel is considerably shorter than most snub nose revolvers (about 1.6 inches long) should I be looking at expanding ammo or heavy penetrating ammo? I shot a large raccoon yesterday with a Glaser Silver, the bullet nailed it like a hammer but took about a minute for it to bleed out (was in an urban area so worried about overpenetration).
Hornady Critical Defense feels good out of it, but I've heard JHP tumbling before hitting the target due to the slow velocities out of such a small barrel possibly not expanding properly.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=166117
These rounds will hurt like a son-of-a-gun to shoot but looks nasty.

And yeah yeah don't give me your lip about why I carry a derringer. It's the smallest gun I can carry the largest caliber in and do it all in the front pocket of my jeans.

 

[Geckgo]

If it were me, I'd go with a flat point solid, screw the HP, punch a hole. If it were me.

That said, I haven't done any theory work on 38 special from a short barrel, so I couldn't get more detail sorry. Just an opinion on this one, which is pretty much what all the theory work will still amount to anyways.

 

[Pyro]

The thing is used for arms length defence, sure I can hit a target 25 yards away but lets be realistic. Buffalo Bore's 38 special Wadcutter is another option.

 

[ugaarguy]

38 spl is a relatively low velocity round anyway. That Grizzly stuff doesn't seem that hot, and they don't even list the test bbl length. Buffalo Bore gets 850 fps out of an actual 2" J Frame test gun with their 158 gr standard pressure loads. Your derringer doesn't have a bbl / cylinder gap from which to lose pressure either. If your derringer will handle +P ammo the old FBI load of a 158gr LSWCHP still sold by Remington and Federal is always a good choice.

 

[bayhawk2]

I carried a Davis .38 spl. derringer for quite some time.
It is a close encounter pistol.Mine was heavy for its size.
Along came the CCW weapons and I jumped on the band wagon.
I felt confident that in a pinch,that derringer would do a number on the B/G.
I kept it loaded with hollow points.I think a
FMJ or even a SP would just make a strait hole through and through
at close range.I felt the hollow points would leave a bigger hole.

 

[SeekHer]

There are lots of mouse guns out there that are just a slight bit bigger then your derringer that carry multiple rounds, in a variety of calibres from .32 H&R, .327 Federal, .380, 9mm, .38 Spec, .40 S&W, in revolvers or semi autos.

Mouse Guns
The Snubnose Files

Check out Genitron for visual comparison between guns:
http://www.genitron.com/HandgunDB/D...SortBy=Length&Submit=Search&ID1=0&ID2=0&ID3=0
It actually shows that the Seecamp LWS380 and the Magnum Research Micro Desert Eagle are smaller (OAL) then your derringer and both with six rounds instead of two.

 

[glocking26]

I carry a Bond Arms 357 mag. with a 3 1/2 barrel loaded with two 357 gold dots. Yea I have a S+W 640 -1 and a glock 26 but the just love the little gun and it's a breeze to carry and I don't feel under gunned at all.
Mike

 

[Rexster]

1.6" is not so different from the true 1.8" to 1.9" of so many S&W snubby barrels. I doubt that 0.2" will make a huge difference in bullet behavior, in and of itself.

Whether or not a bullet tumbles is easy enough to test, by shooting at paper targets.

I am considering the Buffalo Bore full wadcutters if I carry J-snubs again. For now, the smallest I normally carry is an SP101 with magnums, though I have a Seecamp LWS-32 for special occasions.

 

[bigfatdave]

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/38special.html

 

[fallout mike]

Pyro, I used to carry one also for your same reason. I could put it in my pants pocket. It was a .38 also. One of my friends talked nme into selling it to him several years ago. I'm currently looking for another one. What would some of you more knowledgeable guys recommend for caliber?

 

[Pyro]

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/38special.html

Very curious how low the velocities get after 3 inches.

 

[Pyro]

I was carry Glaser Safety Slugs(silver) in it.
When I watched how lousy they worked on a raccoon a few days ago I through them in the box. For how much hype the box says that little guy suffered for a bit too long imo.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

If you must carry the derringer, you want a conventional JHP bullet. If you can take the additional recoil, I recommend the Winchester 130gr +P PDX1 hollowpoint. It has a decent weight, and is designed well. In my calibrates gel tests from a 2" snub, they achieved 12" + of penetration, and opened perfectly, just like the graphic on the back of the box. They are among the more affordable defense ammo and are available at Walmart.

If you want a lower recoiling hollowpoint load, I also tested the Federal 125gr Nyclad hollowpoint, and it achieved the same penetration while also opening up sufficiently. It is a standard pressure load.

 

[Kiln]

I've got one of the Cobray .410 derringers that I generally carry for snakes around my grandfather's place but it also gets loaded with supreme elite self defense ammo by Winchester and left in the sock drawer next to my .38 sp all the time. The little gun is all steel and built like a tank, I've heard the double barrel versions are problematic but the little single shot one seems to be pretty good aside from having the worst recoil of any pistol I've ever shot...and I've shot the .44 mag, never got around to the 500 yet but maybe some day.

Anyways not sure on the ballistics but I wouldn't want to be in front of one when it goes off and they can be found for $100 or less. Rather have one of these than the Cobra derringers that are more expensive and made of zinc.

 

[MCgunner]

A JHP might not expand, but I can assure you, a solid NEVER will. That said, I'd worry more about accuracy than the bullet type. You only have 2 shots to hit the sweet spot and it just might not be at 3 feet. It could be at 15 yards. You just can't say how far you're going to have to shoot.

Me, I'll carry at least my 5 shot very accurate .38 ultralite snub.

 

[mossberg835]

I agree with glocking26, there's no room for guess work with a bond arms derringer. You have either shot one or you haven't . So horror stories about how terrible they are is just speculation . Now I will say that mine is a texas defender with snake slayer grips and either 45/410 , .357 or 40 s&w barrels . The trigger just needs a little downward angle with the pad of the finger tip and then the trigger pull is fine.

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

Pyro what I would suggest, is a Keith style bullet with as wide a flat on the front as possible
158 grain
might as well use the solid too, I doubt it would expand. If you use the solid you wont be disappointed when it doesn't expand.

 

[SeekHer]

Whether you shoot them out of a 1½" barrel from a two shot derringer or a six shot mouse gun the problem(s) remain the same.

Keeping in mind that either form of concealed handguns are [very] short range (much less then seven yards) and usually as a last ditch effort of survival so seven feet, maybe even seven inches would be the norm for the bullet to work in...Accuracy at that range really isn't the issue, velocity is! You're almost putting the muzzle on the torso so you care not that the gun patterns eight inches at ten yards.

What power you'll get is what it's at ignition less a hundred fps or so, so the highest velocity (+P or +P+) ammo is desired but you want an expanding bullet, preferably a massively frangible bullet that will expand upon entry...Hell, any expansion (dissipating the energy over a greater surface area) is far better the a FMJ that can go right through the person at these ranges--fear of hitting an innocent bystander or family member comes into play...It's velocity and energy that causes expansion so while 158 gr bullets work great out of a four inch or longer barrel, you might think about going a bit smaller--110 gr to 125 gr that will expand faster at close ranges.

From your supplied source I've noted a few that I've tried out of Airweight and a Detective sized S&W and Charter Arms revolvers:
Federal Premium Personal Defense Ammunition 38 Special +P 129 Grain Hydra-Shok Jacketed Hollow Point -- My preferred load.
Hornady Critical Defense Ammunition 38 Special +P 110 Grain Flex Tip expanding -- Preferred loading for my daughters
Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammunition 38 Special +P 135 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point
Cor-Bon Thunder Ranch DPX Defensive Ammunition 38 Special +P 110 Grain Barnes TAC-XP Hollow Point Lead-Free -- Amazing results
Cor-Bon DPX Ammunition 38 Special +P 110 Grain Barnes XPB Hollow Point Lead-Free
Glaser Pow'RBall Ammunition 38 Special +P 100 Grain
Remington Ultimate Home Defense Ammunition 38 Special +P 125 Grain Brass Jacketed Hollow Point


For the heavier loads:
Hornady Custom Ammunition 38 Special 158 Grain XTP Jacketed Hollow Point
Grizzly Ammunition 38 Special 158 Grain Wide Flat Nose Plain Base
Double Tap Ammunition 38 Special +P 158 Grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hardcast
Buffalo Bore Ammunition 38 Special +P 158 Grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point Gas Check -- Super bullet at speed but you really need a five inch or better barrel.


I've only heard/read about these so I can't give you a personal opinion on them:
Remington Golden Saber Ammunition 38 Special +P 125 Grain Brass Jacketed Hollow Point
Double Tap Ammunition 38 Special +P 125 Grain Bonded Defense Jacketed Hollow Point-- Ive used them in other calibres and they work very well
Glaser Blue Safety Slug Ammunition 38 Special 80 Grain Safety Slug -- Same as above


Novelty or not?
Extreme Shock Enhanced Penetration Ammunition 38 Special 115 Grain Frangible -- Supposed to be good but the write ups haven't been that favourable to them and bloody expensive
Remington Disintegrator Ammunition 38 Special +P 110 Grain Frangible Lead -- Same as above

I've listed those that I've tried out and not by price...I don't know what you consider expensive so a bunch of them are there all over the price range...I always practice with reduced power--mostly our handloads ammo but we keep the most powerful, damn the expense, loads in the guns whenever we're out and about...I've shot them to see how they perform--accuracy and recoil from maybe four or five guns and then I they just stay in the gun and in a couple of speed loaders...I change them out at the range and reload them when I'm leaving...Stiffer recoil will be a non-entity if you're involved in a confrontation--adrenalin will overpower it.

 

[mossberg835]

75 % of self defense shootouts are within 10 yards and some don't have time for sighting other than pointing. It doesn't bother me a bit to turn loose four 000 buck pellets with one pull of the trigger. I test rounds first hand and refuse to carry a round I only read about.If you can point and shoot one shot and hit a gallon jug size target at ten yards with only two of the four pellets , it's a winner. Going into the field either for hunting or self defense with out first person testing and practice is fool hardy at best. I'm all for research but being hands on ready is the final step to responsible self defense.