Desensitization

[RioShooter]

Everyone has problably heard how playing violent video games can desensitize an individual to violent behavior. This is always presented as a negative effect of playing video games. However, for anyone who owns a firearm for personal protection this is a positive. I wonder how many times good guys have been shot because they hesitated to shoot the BG.

The following is an excerpt from a website condemning video violence:

Many, many studies have shown a definite correlation between the degree of violence in video-game viewing and the degree of aggressive behavior in the viewing children. In his book, Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill (Crown Publishers, New York, 1999) Lieutenant Colonel David Grossman, a psychologist at Arkansas State University and past specialist as a "killologist," points out that willingness to kill another person is not a natural behavior, but one that has to be taught by repeated desensitization and exposure to violence. He goes on to reveal that part of teaching soldiers to kill demands a conditioned response so that shooting a gun becomes automatic. According to Colonel Grossman, the Marine Corp uses modified versions of grossly violent video games (like the ones that allegedly motivated the Columbine carnage) to teach recruits how to kill. These are used to develop the "will to kill" by repeatedly rehearsing the act until it feels natural. Obviously, this technology is much more dangerous in the hands of kids than among soldiers and police. Grossman refers to violent video games as "murder simulators."

Website address: http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/T101200.asp

My question is: Would it be a good idea to play games such as "Delta Force" , which is a first person shooting game, to become desensitzed to shooting another human? Do you think it would make a difference in a real violent encounter?

 

[Mr. Ouchie]

If someone has difficulty separating fantasy from reality, then I can see how video games might have that effect. In other words, mental instability probably has to already exist in that person.

There is literally a world of difference between pressing a mouse button to fire a virtual weapon at a bunch of pixels and pulling the trigger in defensive situation where there are consquences. If you are truely interested in doing all you can to be prepared to use lethal force, you should consider real-world defensive training, not video games.

 

[odysseus]

Grossman refers to violent video games as "murder simulators."

The problem is that what he says here is a statement riddled with personal opinions. Video games, and shooter games, can increase hand-eye coordination - but saying it is a "murder simulator" is a whole other ball of wax.

Your personal ability to understand reality and fanatasy is similar to this subject, as for example playing a race driving game and thinking then you will be a reckless driver on the streets. Is this a problem currently? Do we see this often? It's the same thing - but I see an agenda here with this article of the thread.

If you are unstable anyway this is a problem outside of video games. Again it's about what's going on inside of you and how you interpret it, rather than some lazy blame-game that outside influences are all at fault.

 

[Lucky]

Yea dude, people shouldn't be allowed to think things they want in private. I mean damn, that's just wrong we totally need thought control. These video games are a menace to society's thought stability. Why the hell don't we have thought police yet?

Just because they aren't actually hurting anyone, and there's no evidence they're planning to, or are ever going to, doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated as if they already have. I mean duh, why are you trying to protect the rights of these monsters?

 

[CAnnoneer]

Lieutenant Colonel David Grossman, a psychologist at Arkansas State University and past specialist as a "killologist," points out that willingness to kill another person is not a natural behavior.

Obviously the good colonel did not have the benefit of kindergarten and primary school experiences. The kinds of things children would do to one another when unsupervised would make most adults cringe in horror and disgust.

Ethical behavior is taught and/or evolves as a result of life experience and social interaction. Cruelty is innate and ubiquitous.

 

[benEzra]

RioShooter,

You should know that Mr. Grossman's data, methodology, and conclusions are VERY shaky and should not be taken as gospel. I've read Grossman's book and while I initially found it compelling, I ran across some more details later that made me severely question what he says.

Here's one police trainer taking issue with a number of Grossman's statements, for a taste of the controversy:

http://www.theppsc.org/Grossman/Main-R.htm

I'm not saying that Grossman is necessarily 100% wrong, just that his statements are mostly conjecture rather than demonstrated fact, and that some of the data he extrapolates from is actually misread.

Some more context:

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/1999/05/06/game_violence/index.html


Also, from an RKBA perspective, this statement by Mr. Grossman is a bit disturbing:

"We are trapped in this spiral of self-dependence and lack of trust. Real progress will never be made until we reduce this level of fear. As a historian, I tell you it will take decades--maybe even a century--before we wean Americans off their guns."

 

[c_yeager]

Everyone has problably heard how playing violent video games can desensitize an individual to violent behavior.

Yeah I have heard it, lots. Almost as many times as I have heard that a .50 cal rifle is an excelent tool for downing airliners from 5 miles away.

 

[30-06 lover]

I think of it like this...I have shot deer in real life, and I have shot deer in hunting games. The two just are not the same. Adrenaline is non existing in the game, overwhelming in the real world. Blood and guts are part of the real world and they smell really bad, so a red square on the ground isn't going to simulate the real affect it has on a person. I can only image killing a "person" in a video game, and having to kill a real person in real life are going to be vastly different. There is no preparation or urge to kill from playing a game.

 

[K-Romulus]

Isn't this the same guy who wrote the "Sheepdog" manifesto?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=185842&highlight=sheepdog

ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS

By LTC(RET) Dave Grossman, RANGER, Ph.D. author of "On Killing."
. . .
If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself..."Baa."

 

['Card]

While I don't think video games cause violent behavior, I do think they can have a negative psychological effect on a person - especially a young person. It isn't just a factor of the games themselves, it's the combination of a person in their formative years, and the sheer quantity of time that some kids spend playing these things.

Whether you like the term or not, most first-person-shooters (especially the non-military ones) are pretty much just 'murder simulators'. Sure, some of them throw in a puzzle or two, but for the most part in order to advance or proceed, you have to kill people. Generally a lot of people. So you take a young person with a developing psyche, and then give them an advanced game with good graphics and a physics engine and they pretend to kill people for hours and hours and hours. Is this healthy? I don't think so.

Bottom line? I don't let my sons play first-person shooters. They can play MMORPGs, or RTS games, or simulators (driving, flying, etc.) and I don't have a problem with it, but I'm a gamer, and I've played enough to have an opinion on what's healthy and what isn't. Other parents can do what they want, but there are plenty of great games on the market that aren't 'murder simulators', and that's what my kids will play until they're old enough to make their own decisions.

 

[cambeul41]

Yep, same Grossman

…but I do not think he is necessarily contradicting himself. I do not think he is referring to us when he speaks of sheepdogs, he is referring to those hired on as such, those who wear uniforms and/or badges.

Perhaps -- and only perhaps since I have not had the opportunity to ask him -- he considers us to be wannbe sheep dogs, not real sheep dogs.

 

[crofrog]

Grossman is hit and miss. He's got some good stuff and some turd's. Mostly turd's though.

 

[GEM]

There's a large research literature on the subject.

A summary is that violence is multicausal. Observing media or playing games probably models specific behaviors for those with the predisposition to be violent.

Grossman suggests that video games might help overcome some of our tendency not to want to engage in close contact violence. The actual studies suggest that to be true. It doesn't mean that everyone becomes a violent zombie but it can contribute with other factors.

As far as playing games specifically to desensitize yourself:

1. If that came out in court, you will look like a nutso.
2. If you want to get a feel for using lethal force in civilian situations - you don't want to be desensitized, you want to be intelligent as to the use. I suggest saving one's money for a good tactical course series that covers the legalisms, psychological, and social factors. Then do some quality FOF as compared to playing some fantasy hero crap.

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

According to Colonel Grossman, the Marine Corp uses modified versions of grossly violent video games (like the ones that allegedly motivated the Columbine carnage) to teach recruits how to kill.

Ya, riiiiight. I remember our "video game time" in boot camp.

 

[Ziryo]

You know, I have to admit that I always get a chuckle out of the idea that violent video games can somehow make someone more prone to violent acts. Well, I guess it could happen if someone doesn't have a firm grasp on reality.

Even the infamous Soldier of Fortune games full of graphic violence didn't come close to depicting what happens when someone is shot in real life. The closest games that come to actually firing a gun are the light gun games where you generally use a lightweight, solid handgun shaped object that has little if any recoil, makes almost no noise, and is reloaded by pointing off the screen and pulling the trigger.

I'm almost waiting for a media wide outcry of street racing games to be branded as "illegal driving simulators;" it would make just as much sense as calling first person shooters "murder simulators."