Did NRA training courses this weekend.

[Trent]

Did some NRA training courses this weekend. Saturday I took Basic Pistol, Sunday I took Personal Protection in the Home.

The Basic Pistol course was great for new shooters. Covered a lot of materials, and taught you everything a new shooter would need to know about handguns, handgun safety, and basic marksmanship skills.

It was a *touch* boring. Being an off-and-on competitive shooter, I'm pretty practiced with handguns. I only learned a couple bits of odd trivia about revolvers I didn't yet know. But, it was good to go through a refresher, and it was a prerequisite for the class I wanted to take. The live fire portion was again, pretty basic, but shooting is shooting, and I enjoy it, even if it's just slow fire at 8 yards.

The Personal Protection in the Home class went WAY deep in to the legalities of lethal force. Our instructor was also a licensed lawyer in IL, and the legal section took about 3 hours to get through. It was a serious eye opener, and really changed my perceptions (some of which were dead wrong!) about the laws in Illinois. One part that really struck me was the "don't talk to police" following a shoot, piece.

I'll go in to detail because everything I've been told by LEO's in this area, was to tell the cops that arrive that it was a defensive shoot and to recite those five special words "Was afraid for my life".

But the NRA course legal section specifically taught that you should NOT give statements to police, UNTIL you have been advised by your lawyer. When the police arrive, we're told to expect them to confiscate at least the weapon used in the shooting (and possibly the rest of your firearms). We're told to expect to be arrested for homicide or assault with a deadly weapon. But we were told NOT to give any statements until we speak with a lawyer.

The bottom line was to be non-confrontational, and tell the police "I'll give a full statement after I've consulted legal counsel."

Anyway, there's a LOT of ground covered in that legal section, and many of my misconceptions vaporized. I would advise anyone interested in that sort of thing to take the class - it's GOOD.

The live fire drills the instructor ran were interesting, and fun. No sight / no aim point reaction shooting. Offset sight shooting (to show you can still hit a target at quite a distance even if your sights aren't lined up perfectly). Drills to determine how much ground a person can cover before you can place two aimed shots on target (holy CRAP that was an eye opener). Crowding cover drills (how to properly slice the pie without exposing your weapon first).

The class was a heck of a lot of fun, and I learned a lot today. I feel a LOT more confident about my abilities, home security, and how to properly respond to and deal with threats, and when lethal force is called for (along with VERY specific information relating to my state).

Would *highly* recommend taking the class to anyone interested in home defense, wanting to know more about the legal aspects of deadly force.

The fact that I had this much fun despite it being windy (35-40mph), cold (40-45 degrees), and rainy on an outdoor range during live fire, speaks volumes of the instructor. (Class was indoors and heated, fortunately.)

Anyway, that's the end of my report. Was a great weekend full of shooting, and shooting instruction.

 

[somerandomguy]

Nice! I did my basic pistol course online for my CCW. Was that what you were doing them for? Or just for the heck of doing them to learn some stuff? Also, did they teach you about tac light usage for dealing with an intruder?

 

[Trent]

Yes, they talked about tac lights, and a thousand other things. Some of which were applicable to my environment, some not so much, but all good information.

I didn't go in even caring about the CCW aspect. The basic pistol course was a prerequisite to the Protection of the Home course, which is a prerequisite to the Protection Outside the Home couse (which I also want to take), which is a prerequisite to the new Defensive Pistol course they're starting. I've heard that's a REAL fun course, so want to work my way up to it.

The OTHER reason, is I'm wanting to start teaching Basic Pistol at the Tremont, IL range, for people wanting CCW training, and knocking these courses out meets one of the prequalifiers for the instructor course. I've sent out a feeler to a range down south who has an instructor course next month, but if it's full up, I may end up waiting until the Chillicothe instructor course later this year (a LOT closer to home).

I've been teaching individuals and small groups of people how to shoot for years, but in an informal, unstructured environment ("hey, come shooting with me"). Going through structured training gives me a MUCH better idea of how to present the material to new shooters, and how to make things orderly. It's pretty overwhelming for someone who's never touched a gun before, lots of terms, lingo, etc. to learn, things that I take for granted because I'm a gun nut.

Also, with any classes with live-fire components filling up fast in this area with the pending CCW legislation in Illinois, it'll help fast-track friends, family, club members, as well as offer even more opportunity for the general public to get classroom and live fire training.

But, along the way, I'm finding out that I really LIKE the courses I'm taking, and wish I'd done it a LOT earlier in my shooting hobby. I learned stuff today that I *should* have known years ago, about the law in my state.

Also got a few pointers for home defense I hadn't considered before, and learned a couple of neat new shooting drills I'd never practiced that should help make me better not just at self-defense, but a bit faster in competitive shooting events.

Was a good (if tiring) weekend!

 

[somerandomguy]

Awesome, I might have to do some if I can find any around. Sounds like a blast.

 

[gunnutery]

I almost signed up for an NRA class for this weekend so I could instruct CCW classes but the timing didn't work out. Maybe in the spring if I can drum up some interest.

 

[Trent]

Somerandomguy;

http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx

That's a course search database so you can look for ones close to you.

 

[Plan2Live]

For many years I never knew that firearms training courses even existed except the hunter saftey courses. Once I discovered they existed I thought I had been shooting long enough that I already knew everything I needed to know and didn't want to "waste" my money. Then friend and CWP Instructor convinced me to get my NRA Pistol Instructor Certification so I could get my CWP Instructor's credentials so I took the two required NRA classes. WOW! I had no idea how much I didn't know.

Around here the local gun stores push the CWP classes but show no interest in the NRA classes. I wish more people would suggest, even promote, taking the NRA Basic Pistol class if they are condsidering a handgun purchase.

I have since taken the Refuse To Be a Victim Instructor series and am wanting to move on to Personal Protection Inside the Home and Personal Protection Outside the Home. Once you start learning it's addictive.

 

[Trent]

Plan2Live

I agree. I've been self-taught on my professional career, and been very successful with computer programming and advanced network architecture. It makes me pretty arrogant about things at times.

BUT, I went in with an open mind and a willingness to learn this weekend. And I did learn a lot this weekend!

Granted, the basic class WAS really simple, and really didn't teach me too many new concepts (not using the slide stop release on certain handguns was new, knowing what direction a revolver cylinder rotates ONLY through examination of the outside of the cylinder was new, etc).

But I would recommend it in a heartbeat to newer shooters - and I'm hoping I can convince my wife to go through the course next time it's up. It was also a very good reminder of the fundamentals, something that can help us refine our shooting at ANY experience level.

Immediately after the classroom portion I took to the range and did a little practice while there was still a bit of daylight. I shot a 20 shot group with my Ruger SP101 of 1.5" at 10 yards. That's a slightly smaller group size than I'd normally shoot, AND there were no flyers. (Usually on a group with that large of a round count, I'd send at LEAST one flyer that would stray a few inches, or worse.)

Why the difference? I wasn't balancing the pressure between my shooting and support hand equal, which wasn't allowing me to reduce the wobble as much as I could. It also caused my trigger finger to not break clean reliably.

So I can say with truth that even that Basic pistol course improved my shooting. I've always done a LOT more rifle shooting than pistol shooting, which I've always viewed as a secondary skill. With CCW legislation pending, pistol shooting is now at the forefront of my training plan this year.

The gun handling I saw with people in the basic pistol vs. protection in the home class was night & day. It's obvious that there were more advanced shooters taking the protection in the home class. I was the youngest student in the room, at 35. Most of the guys were in their 60's, and all of them had lifelong experience with firearms. One was a department of corrections officer (retired). Another was a Vietnam veteran with 2 tours in 65 and 66, and knew his business well with his Colt Python.

He wouldn't sell me the gun.

There were 9 students in that class. The people sitting in that classroom consisted of nearly a couple of CENTURIES of firearms experience (I kept a mental running total when people did their introductions.)

EVERYONE in that class took many positive things away.

EVERYONE learned several things about shooting, and about the law, and about home defense.

I can't wait to continue more training, it's really motivating.

 

[Sav .250]

Sounds like you gained a lot of insight.

Maybe some of the cowboys who think you just fire away will think twice about what is acceptable or not. Better yet, they might take the NRA course.

 

[Trent]

Sav250; I've been shooting handguns - a lot - since the day I turned 21 nearly 15 years ago.

I've received informal tips from people over the years, picked up a bit here and there online.

But in two days I have a whole new mindset to the fine art of putting lead on target - and how to do it fast, if necessary. A few years ago pin shoots started to open my eyes to the problem I have shooting under stress. A brief stint shooting IPSC highlighted that. It's almost like I'm farsighted, in my shooting. Put a target way out there and give me time, I'll hit it every time. Put the targets closer and put me under the clock, and I'm SLOW. Accurate, but slow.

That's getting fixed this year. I learned a lot this weekend, and it REALLY ramped-up my confidence with a handgun.

I never even realized the NRA did training courses. Even though I'm a life member I never really dug in to the organization that much. NRA membership was a requirement for the private range I go to, so I joined and just did a life membership 6 or 7 years ago, that way I wouldn't forget to pay dues each year. (I have a bad problem forgetting annual payments).

I always thought they were just a lobbying group that put out a few magazines. Another illusion that was dispelled. They have really good training programs!

 

[Minnie]

We took our personal protection in the home this weekend too. They had a lawyer come in and talk for an hour. He had been a prosecuting attorney and it was very eye opening. They said the same thing, "Don't talk till you talk to a lawyer." He said most prosecuting attorneys do not like CCW and they are in an elected position. He also said you will get sued in civil court by the person you shoot or the family of them. They told us to always call 911 because the call is recorded and you can be recorded saying "You need to leave. The police are on there way. I have a gun and I will shoot. You need to leave." That recording will win your case in civil court.
Our instructor covered a lot of being aware of your surroundings and basically profiling the people around you. You see someone acting weird you put distance between you and them. Distance is your friend.
We did almost no shooting in our class. We had to hit a piece of paper 15 out of 30 rounds. My first 15 hit so I was done.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

I suggest everyone take a course that spends at least several hours delving into the legal aspects specific to your state and local laws. It's often a rude awakening for folks. Our personal, handcrafted worldview of what "should be the law" rarely aligns with the realities of what is the law. It gives you the legal tools to properly use your tools.

One can lead to justifiable homicide while the other leads to manslaughter.

 

[Trent]

Revival of an old thread I started. Continuing on with my training, just passed my rifle instructor course this weekend. The instructors courses are a lot more involved! This one took 3 days. (one evening for basic instructor training, two full days for the rifle instructor course.)

Next ones on my list, RSO and pistol instructor.

 

[JFtheGR8]

Tremont you say? I'm in Eureka and would love to take a ccw course as well as some others from you. I've also been looking for a local range but haven't joined any yet due to the ammo situation. No point in joining a range and shooting up all my ammo if I can't replenish it.


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[johnandersonoutdoors]

Trent,

I looked at the course offerings in my area based on that link you posted.

I have been thinking about becoming an instructor as well. I am a little surprised by the price of the courses, about $350 each. Do they seem like a good value, or do you feel like it is overpriced but something you must do in order to move forward?

 

[Trent]

John;

I lucked out and got the instructors course at $150. The instructor was asked to run the course to certify range safety officers and NRA rifle instructors for the boy scouts organization. He tossed me an e-mail and I jumped on it. Usually they are 2x as expensive, or more.

As far as value, at $350.. it depends on what you want to do with it. Instructors generally charge $175/student or thereabouts for Basic Rifle courses (which are 2 day, 14 hour classes). So you could make your money back on the first class you run, pretty easy. There are expenses (materials, insurance, gas, range fees, etc), but you set the fee you charge. Training is a business.


JFtheGR8;

Look in to the Secor range. It's real close to you - due east from Eureka, not 10 minutes away, and the NRA instructor (Jason Jording) that teaches there is FANTASTIC. I don't see any classes listed for him anytime soon, but I'm sure he'll do some more at some point.

The range address is:

Secor Sportsman's Club
967 County Road 2250E
Secor, IL 61771

If he isn't offering anything by then, I'm hoping to have Basic Pistol, Basic Rifle courses scheduled at Tremont by late summer / early fall. I should have more details after I meet with the executive board there, on the 4th of June.

 

[Dr_B]

I suggest everyone take at least the NRA Basic Pistol Course at some point. If not that, then contact an instructor and take First Steps Pistol Orientation for your own specific carry or home defense pistol. All instructors for Basic Pistol are also certified for First Steps.

I am certified to teach Basic Pistol and Personal Protection Inside the Home. Soon to be certified for Personal Protection Outside the Home.

I am happy to see people having had positive experiences in Basic Pistol. Too many people shy away from it because when you say "Basic Pistol" they hear "Baby Pistol." They think "Well, I've been shooting cans with Grampa or been going to steel shoots for years. Why should I have to take Basic Pistol?"

But people always learn something in that class. I have taught housewives, college students, former police, former military, etc and they always come away with new knowledge about handguns and handgun shooting.