I am getting ready to buy some dies for my 308. I was thinking of getting a set of forster benchrest full die set and a lee collet die. Not sure if the micrometer die is really worth it or not. Then I saw some Redding die sets that look really nice but pricy to. Are the bushing die sets really the cat's meow. I was thinking of getting a set of the type s full match that has a neck bushing die a body die and a micro seater. Seems like these would work great for a bolt as I will be neck sizing only until I will have to bump the shoulder back with the body die. I have heard nothing but good things about lee's collet die, how does it compare to the redding bushing dies. Sometimes I wonder if I should get a regular set of rcbs or redding and go with that. Could just use a little advise some you guys that use these sets.
die selection
- Thread starter broham
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Remo-99
Member
Lee collet die sounds like the way go, and their other dies are fairly good too, for the money Lee's gear is worth every penny in my opinion. The only time i have to full length size (for bolt action rifles) is when i aquire fired cases from another source. If your working the brass each and every time by F/L sizing when there maybe no need to, it's just wearing out cases before time.imo
cpttango30
Member
I don't think you really need a micrometer adjust seating die for general loading. I prefer the Hornady New Dimension dies. Unless you are going to get a OAL Gauge and try to seat the bullet to an exact distance off the lands. I am using a normal seating die to do my fine tuning I like the hornady die for that too becuase it has a rubber O-ring that holds the setting but allows you to change it without the need for wrenches. Also with the Hornady die you can buy at a later date a micrometer seat steam for them. That to me would be a better buy in my book.
If you go with a Forester you will not be disappointed they are top notch dies.
If you go with a Forester you will not be disappointed they are top notch dies.
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USSR
Member
Yep. The Redding bushing dies are great for controlling neck tension, and if you get the TiN coated bushings, you don't need to lube the neck. The body die is also very handy. If you go this route, I would suggest you remove the decapping pin and expander ball, and get a universal decapping die to handle the removal of spent primers.
Don
I have just about every make of die on my bench but I will usually end up with a Forster Ultra Seat Die, a Redding FL size die, a Redding Body Die, a Lee Collet Neck die, and either a Lee Factory Crimp Die or a Redding Taper Crimp Die. The path you are headed down is a great way to go.
ranger335v
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"Are the bushing die sets really the cat's meow. I was thinking of getting a set of the type s full match that has a neck bushing die a body die and a micro seater."
In my experience, a bushing die is fine IF you turn your necks to a consistant thickness. If not, your bullet tension will vary from round to round unless you don't use the expander. And, if you do use an expander you lose much of the advantage that type of neck die offers! It's not for me. I like the Lee.
A Lee Collet Neck Sizer simply sizes ALL necks to the same inside diameter and requires no expander. That's why the collet die gives such straight necks, IF the brass is good. Nothing can make a perfect neck if the thickness varies too much; a LIGHT outside turning can help a lot.
But, over thinning necks for factory rifles can also be harmful to accuracy. All turning does is to degrade an already sloppy fit in a chamber so it's easy to go too far. Neck turning just enough to clean up some 60-80% of the circumference for a factory chamber is about as far as we can go.
Forsters seaters (and Redding's) are far better than Hornady's because they contain the entire case and bullet before seating begins. Hornady's seater sleeve only holds the bullet and the case mouth, not the full body. But all of them require straight cases or the loaded ammo won't be straight, no matter which seater you use. Hornady's newest seater is not a new idea, the sliding sleeve principle was marketed years ago by Herters, Lyman, Vickerman, RCBS and others.
In my experience, a bushing die is fine IF you turn your necks to a consistant thickness. If not, your bullet tension will vary from round to round unless you don't use the expander. And, if you do use an expander you lose much of the advantage that type of neck die offers! It's not for me. I like the Lee.
A Lee Collet Neck Sizer simply sizes ALL necks to the same inside diameter and requires no expander. That's why the collet die gives such straight necks, IF the brass is good. Nothing can make a perfect neck if the thickness varies too much; a LIGHT outside turning can help a lot.
But, over thinning necks for factory rifles can also be harmful to accuracy. All turning does is to degrade an already sloppy fit in a chamber so it's easy to go too far. Neck turning just enough to clean up some 60-80% of the circumference for a factory chamber is about as far as we can go.
Forsters seaters (and Redding's) are far better than Hornady's because they contain the entire case and bullet before seating begins. Hornady's seater sleeve only holds the bullet and the case mouth, not the full body. But all of them require straight cases or the loaded ammo won't be straight, no matter which seater you use. Hornady's newest seater is not a new idea, the sliding sleeve principle was marketed years ago by Herters, Lyman, Vickerman, RCBS and others.
The Bushmaster
Member
Pick a manufacturer. They are all good...My loading bench looks like a rainbow of color, except blue...
USSR
Member
Have seen this on the 'net many times. However, in 6 years of 1,000 yard F Class competition, I have not found it to be true as I don't turn necks and have not seen any vertical stringing at 1k, where variations in neck tension would surely show up. In fact, varying brass length (latter corrected by trimming) caused me the only stringing problem I had.
Don
When any I here people say that you can neck size only for a bit until you have to full size. Does this mean that you will eventually need to use a body die or a full length die. How does the body die differ from a full length die. My understanding is that the body die just bumps the shoulder. I have loaded quite a few rounds for handgun but not for rifle yet so I am still in the learning stage. I just want the good stuff now( within reason) so I don't buy twice. The Forster ultra full die set with a redding body die and a Lee collet is about $120. The Redding type S neck die set is about $135 without any bushings. I figure that the body die,collet and mic seater can be used for my bolt and the Full and mic could work for my M1A, if I go with the forster. If I go the Redding route would I need a full length die as the set only has a body and neck. Thank you all for your advise I really apreciate it.
scrat
Member
the neck part is what holds the bullet when you buy a neck sizing die thats all its sizing. the sidewalls on the back part of the case though are still subject to expansion and contraction. They are most likely expanded and will pretty much stay that way. when you neck size only the brass will last longer and require less work. When you full size the brass it gets sized all the way top to bottom. Problem is the brass must go somewhere so it usually goes forward which means more case work. Meaning trimming the cases as they get to long. I usually go 3-4 times neck sizing then do a full length size as that brass is constantly being pushed out. However i know that when i full length size i will have to check the case length. Same time you always have to inspect the brass. Anytime your shooting near max loads out of used brass eventually the brass will start to get stress cracks. Any sign of them and junk the pieces dont bother reloading. split case necks. spider cracks. your going to see more of it as you go along. The more you size the less the brass will last. Unless you neck size. as far as dies. I like lee. especially the lee factory crimp die. Anyway you go the dies are all good. I just dont see why i should spend a grip of money to get quality ammo. when i can spend less and get the same if not better.
The Redding body die doesn't touch the neck during sizing unlike a full length die. As you mentioned, the body die is used to bump the shoulder back IF it needs it i.e. when the round is hard to feed. The advantage of neck sizing is that you get more consistent pressures in the case during firing since the case has already expanded to where it's much closer to the cylinder walls. Also as mentioned, there's less fatigue on the neck when you only reduce the neck diameter by a few thousandths ... just enough to hold the bullet.
TooTaxed
Member
I'm gonna stick out my neck here...I've used dies over the years from more than a half dozen makers...still have most of 'em on my shelf...and now use Lee for all new cartridges I set up for. I see no superiority of the other die mfgs. over Lee, they are FAR less expensive, and I really like their Factory Crimp dies for the final step.
scrat
Member
I dont think your sticking your neck out at all. they make good dies. its hard to deny
Yep, I bought a Lee roll crimp die for .45 Colt and it's better than the roll crimp die in the Redding carbide set that I bought ... it puts a nice roll on the end of the case without removing any brass. I don't like the o-ring that Lee uses so I simply don't use it.
Griz44
Member
I have only Lee dies left in my equipment list. They will get the job done for my needs. Yes, there are advantages in using some of the more expensive dies (and other equipment) for those with the ability and guns to take advantage of the extra accuracy they can produce. For me, for rifle, the kill zone on freezer meat is 4" so having groups at .25" is not a requirement. For pistol, I can't hold still enough to make a difference anymore.
Look a little closer.
Do I have any Lee dies? Yep
Do Lee dies load good ammo? Yep
In general, are they made as well, and are the internals as nicely machined as others? Nope
Are they a great buy and a great way to start to keep cost down? Yep
Griz44
Member
^
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And that's the truth. Good explanation Walkalong...
!
And that's the truth. Good explanation Walkalong...
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