Differences between USP45 CT and HK45 CT?

[JohnRiley]

I want to purchase my first carry gun soon (which I also plan to use with my first suppressoron also) and I have narrowed down my final choices down to USP 45 CT and the HK45 CT. Having shot a fullsize USP45 and enjoyed it, I'm kind of leaning toward the USP but am still curious as to what differences there are between the two pistols. For those of you that have handle both, which would you personally reccamend? No stores in my immediate are have either in stock currently so I'm doing most of my research online and will most likely have to buy off of Gunbroker when I do make my decision. Any input is appreciated. Thank you.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Just based on the fact that the HK45 was designed as an improvement/replacement for the USP should make you choice pretty easy. Their experts looked at all the shortcomings of the USP and addressed them in the HK45.

I've handled, inspected and shot both side by side and for me the HK45 wins, hands down just for the improved ergos...plus I love the look of the grips

 

[SilentScream]

Internally the two guns are identical. The changes made to the HK45 CT are basically in the ergos.

 

[boricua9mm]

Just based on the fact that the HK45 was designed as an improvement/replacement for the USP should make you choice pretty easy. Their experts looked at all the shortcomings of the USP and addressed them in the HK45.

I've handled, inspected and shot both side by side and for me the HK45 wins, hands down just for the improved ergos...plus I love the look of the grips

I remember the story quite differently. Heckler and Koch had teamed up with Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn to create a new pistol; at the time the rumor was that HK was going to build a 1911. What emerged was the HK45, which was synchronized with the Gov't solicitation for the Joint Combat Pistol program. I'm quite sure that with Vickers being plugged into high levels of the Military community, the format of the HK45 was not coincidental.

HK has stated that they have no intention of discontinuing the USP series. The HK45 is considered by them to be a product improved version, but at the end of the day the JCP program was the primary target.

The "new and improved" buffer recoil reduction system does not work as well as the dual-captive recoil assembly found on the full size USPs. The fact that the HK45 has a lower profile slide that sits lower in the hand is offset by the less efficient recoil reduction system. The HK45 feels less blocky in the hand, but in my experience in letting new shooters try the USP45f, they admit that it is a "big gun" but they usually don't complain about the grip. I think this is a learned behavior from those of us with more handgun experience. One big negative is the trough at the bottom of the trigger guard. It rubs my trigger finger raw. Even Larry Vickers has come out against this "feature" and recommends removing it via Bowie Tactical Concepts. He said HK threw that in at the last minute and that he disapproves of that move. My raw trigger finger agrees.

I've had the pleasure of shooting & reviewing one of the first prototypes of the HK45. It was an exciting offering at the time, that's for sure. Shooting it side-by-side with the USP45f makes you appreciate the USP more and more, not to take anything away from the HK45.

Both are great guns. The USP45f has been at my bedside with a TLR-1 for the past 10 years. I have no intentions of replacing it with anything else that has been offered in the marketplace since.
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Between the HK45CT and the USP45CT, I think the newer HK45CT is the winner. It is more sleek and since both of those pistols use the same technology internally (unlike the HK45 vs. USPf), the lower sitting slide with less mass makes it a bit nicer to shoot.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I remember the story quite differently. Heckler and Koch had teamed up with Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn to create a new pistol; at the time the rumor was that HK was going to build a 1911. What emerged was the HK45, which was synchronized with the Gov't solicitation for the Joint Combat Pistol program. I'm quite sure that with Vickers being plugged into high levels of the Military community, the format of the HK45 was not coincidental.

We're both remembering the same story/article

The only difference is that I remember reading that they did complete the study of a H&K built 1911, but found that the price point they would have to sell it at would have been unacceptable...which is saying a lot for H&K.

The Hk45 was an update of the USP45 (the P30 is the update of the USP 9/40) to include the lessons learned from the P2000 (the HK45c, looks like a P2000 on hormones) while keeping the best features of the USP...to include a standard 1913 rail to ease mounting of attachments

 

[boricua9mm]

...but you said that the HK45 was designed as "an improvement/replacement of the USP" which, as I recall, isn't quite accurate.

They set out to make a new firearm, much like they did with the P2000. There was a need for a new .45ACP; the P2000 and P2000SK already had the 9mm and .40S&W covered.

HK has/had no intention to discontinue the USP. They wanted a new gun and they pushed it in a direction in which they might possibly gain a U.S. Gov't contract. H&K later came out and dubbed it as a product improvement. I can say with strong confidence that this was HK-USA's marketing tactic to recoup the sunken R&D costs of the HK45 by selling it to the Civilian & LEO market after the dissolution of the JCP program.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have no control over how H&K cares to market the USP now, I'm only repeating what Larry Vicker's wrote in his article (I don't recall the name of the magazine) about the development of the H&K45 pistol.

I'll point out a couple of things from an article about the HK45

[The HK45] actually had its roots with the HK 1911 program which really never went anywhere. They never made parts though they made some initial blueprints.

...And one of the things we talked about on the USP, when you disengage the safety from the cocked and locked position you often decock the gun. One of the things we spec’d for the HK45 was that should be modified so the decocking function was a very deliberate motion that you couldn’t easily do as you disengaged the safety.

...It was a mutual process to take the USP45 — a gun that had a reputation for being very accurate, very reliable, durable pistol — but let’s make it less blocky, make it ambi friendly, more adaptable

The fact that they haven't discontinued the USP line has been a boon to shooters as the price point of the USP has fallen with the introduction of the P30/HK45

 

[JohnRiley]

I have no control over how H&K cares to market the USP now, I'm only repeating what Larry Vicker's wrote in his article (I don't recall the name of the magazine) about the development of the H&K45 pistol.

I'll point out a couple of things from an article about the HK45



The fact that they haven't discontinued the USP line has been a boon to shooters as the price point of the USP has fallen with the introduction of the P30/HK45

Both guns are pretty much the same price now. This thread has become an "Oranges to Tangerines" discussion. And I'm still no closer to deciding on either. Buying both is starting to sound pretty good.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Both guns are pretty much the same price now.

That's true, a couple of hundred dollars isn't much of a difference in that range ($836 ~ $1032 at Buds), but I remember when the difference was closer to $400

 

[RussB]

Differences...

Grip. The HK45ct has a smaller grip frame and has back straps that are interchangeable to allow a good fit for more folks

Sights. Each has a different dovetail configuration, neither are tall enough for suppressor use (the SWR Osprey 45 MIGHT clear the HK45ct, but the USPct sights are too low)

Rail. USP has a proprietary rail, while the HK45ct has a 1913 rail

Controls. Slide release in ambi on the HK45ct.