Larry Vickers & Ken Hackathorn on the HK45

[vaherder]

Larry was in the USA when the HK45 was designed. I serious doubt he received anything from H&K. Army CID, IG and DCIS would have had a field day if he did. Even getting a price break from H&K would have seen Larry awarded a CM under the UCMJ. Leavenworth is not a great duty assignment.

When I was in the USN and assigned to Pentagon, NSC, or the WH I was required to fill out a form each year listing my investments ie stocks owned etc.

Look at what happened to another special forces guy when the admiral in charge of NCIS at the time and also a SEAL went on a personal vendetta.

I hate 1911s. If I had to go into combat or a bad situation and needed a handgun in 45acp the HK45 would be the gun.

VA herder

 

[Double Naught Spy]

For those of us that have ACTUALLY trained with either of these gentleman, the accusation of bias are laughable.

Okay, I trained with Hackathorn. He most definitely has product biases based on who is sponsoring him or paying him at the time to promote their products. His view on laser sights changed significantly after getting on board with Crimson Trace. At the time, he was gungho on Wilson Combat 1911s and magazines as well.

Of course the article is biased by the opinions. Both guys were involved in the design of the pistol and have their names associated with it. They aren't going to speak poorly of it. It is sort of like expecting an unbiased opinion of a child by the child's parents. It isn't going to happen.

I would be much more impressed with the opinions of Vickers or Hackathorn if their reviews were actually independent reviews of the product, one they didn't help develop, and not from a company that is putting money in their wallets. Of course now, they aren't likely to ever rate another pistol better than the HK45, even if it is, because they are so closely tied tothe HK45 by reputation and $$.

Something else to keep in mind is that their biases are part of who they are. They wanted certain features on the gun that fit their perceptions of what was and was not important. That is bias.

As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with Zerofefect's summary of the HK45.

 

[HKGuns]

I've owned 3 H&K's and found them nothing special at all.

Each to his own.

One of them had the highly touted LEM trigger mentioned in the article. I grew to hate the pistol and still consider it one the worst semi-auto's I've owned.

The LEM trigger is DAO, so if you don't like DAO, you're not going to like LEM, it was produced because it is a requirement for some Federal agencies and some people like them. Mainly revolver shooters I would suspect.

To me it was nothing but a big double-action only revolver.

The fact that this is surprising to you creates doubt about your level of experience. That is exactly what it was designed to be. You apparently own several SA 1911's. Did you even read what the LEM trigger was before purchasing? DA/SA is probably the variant you should have purchased, or you could have changed your LEM for another type very easily. HK's pistols all have numerous operating variants and you can change them to suit your requirements.

Not very accurate either, the lowly Ruger 345 shot rings around it.

HK's are known to be very accurate pistols. Everyone makes the odd lemon once in a while, however, as a rule HK makes fewer lemons. Again, your level of experience is coming into question here.

H&K and the FN both solve that problem.

There are far more high capacity polymer based pistols than just HK and FN.

 

[Skylerbone]

Ladies and gentlemen, we are all biased whether by experience or ignorance or stupidity (there is a not so subtle difference). It seems suggesting that Larry Vickers is in fact human has people up in arms. I've yet to train with him or Jim or use any of their products as is the case with most shooters. That may make us ignorant of their preferred techniques and gear but does not disqualify us as stupid or otherwise uninformed.

Let he who has fired every model pistol manufactured and dissected their strengths and faults cast the next stone. I would be to own an HK but it may not be in my future. I would own a number of Glocks were it not for the M&P fitting me better and my comfort level with modifying it. That does not dismiss those firearms in my mind as something inferior, merely as choices better suited to other people.

The size of my hands and wallet tend to choose my pistols for me. As was stated in the article if the M&P is perhaps as good then I'd buy 2 for the price of 1 HK. If you don't know 1 is none and 2 is 1 then "you're wrong". How's that for bias?

 

[xXxplosive]

And how many interviews and TV clips where LV states that the only pistol he would ever take into battle was a 1911.
He was responsible for designing a 1911 for Spec. Ops. Teams by combining parts from Springfield and othe firms to make the best available for them.

Personally, I'm tired of the "Experts" telling us what they're paid to tell us and not what they truly believe...

 

[9mmepiphany]

I would request that we tone down the bickering in this thread...although i do feel that it's usefulness is quickly coming to an end.

Any last comments?...make them soon

 

[memphisjim]

did he just indorse the pistols from the 2 companies that spend the most on r&d? and advertising?

 

[HKGuns]

I'm done.

 

[fastbolt]

If we're considering excluding people from giving personal opinions because of the potential for personal bias ... what would that do when it comes to opinions posted by everyone who frequents internet firearm forums?

Extend the gentlemen the courtesy of being able to state their opinions.

Examine and consider their opinions as you will ... or ignore them as you will, for whatever reasons you may feel are appropriate from your own perspective.

If this limits the amount of new and potentially valuable information you may be exposed to? Oh well. It's your business ...

I certainly may not agree with the opinions of other folks, from lay person to experienced, knowledgeable and authoritative source, but if you don't listen you may miss the opportunity to learn something.