Dillon 550B vs RCBS Pro 2000

[disneyd]

The other thread in this section about the Pro 2000 got me looking at progressive presses.

Can anyone tell me the major differences between the Dillon 550B and the RCBS Pro 2000? I know the Dillon has 4 stations and the RCBS has 5. Any other differences?

I'm just wondering what I'm missing since the MSRP on the Dillon is $380 and RCBS is $617.

 

[Shoney]

2000 has auto indexing, has a superior powder measure, quicker caliber changeover at much less price, loads more cartridges per hour, and the best custumer service of any of the progressive manufacturing companies.

 

[disneyd]

According to their web sites, both presses are manually indexed.

I have found much better than MSRP prices on the RCBS though... $379 at Wideners. I've got a RC Supreme single stage that I really like.

 

[spencerhut]

Manual indexing on the RCBS Pro 2000.
Just my opinion . . . .
Time to change from small to large primers RCBS is faster . . .
Time and cost to change calibers - RCBS wins . . .
Tube -vs- APS primer system - debatable, though their is not much debate around which system is ultimately safer. Chances of a primer detonation if you are taking the proper precautions in the tube system is fairly slim.
Powder measure in the RCBS is way better.
Build quality in both units is very good. The RCBS is good old fashion cast iron.
Warranty on both units is good to very good.
That 5th station means a lot to me. I can crank out pistol rounds at a pretty good pace and never have to worry about a squib or double charge by having a Lockout Die in station 4 and seating in station 5. Without the 5th station this would be impossible. Doing rifle rounds it also lets me have the luxury of using a lube die and a Lee FCD on my semi auto rounds. Lube die (which also knocks out primers or stray media from the flash hole) in station 1. Size in station 2, charge in station 3, seat in station 4 and crimp in station 5. If anything I wish I had one more station so I could use a FCD on the pistol rounds. Not that I use the FCD's much on pistol rounds anymore.

Cost, that is a tough one. Option both presses out they way you will use them and then add in the cost for each caliber change you will need. I think this was another vote for the RCBS for me as it was cheaper to add additional calibers. This is also a point where the Hornady LnL looks good because you can share things like Lockout dies very easily with the LnL system having each die separate. On any other press you have to get a Lockout die for each caliber or move the die from die plate to die plate. After you use a Lockout die you will feel very uneasy not using it. It also forces you to learn how to properly setup your dies since you can't use the Lee FCD to "fix" things for you in a 5 station press.

 

[Hawk]

I don't have either but when I was checking presses I noted that the 2000 was manual index.

They're usually a little higher than the 550 but not as bad as the MSRPs would lead one to believe. Figure 379.00 from Wideners to 475.00 from MidSouth and Midway splitting the difference. Dillon's MSRP isn't discounted much, if at all.

But I've never seen the 2000 below the 550 in cost. Personally I wouldn't miss the auto-index given that there's no casefeeder available.

It's not clear to me how one manual index would be appreciably faster than another although there may be some speed advantage if using pre-loaded APS strips. While loading APS "belts" isn't a problem, It wouldn't appear to have any advantage over stuffing tubes.

The powder measures are arguable - the RCBS sure looks better to me with that jazzy micrometer and all. I went and got the Quickmeasure for my press but it appears I solved a problem I never actually had.

Some new Green blood in the progressive press jihads would be most welcome. We've heard everything from the Blue Flu* crowd as well as those that suffer from both strains of Scarlet Fever. Everything is old, hackneyed and repetitious at this stage. We need another progressive in the mix.



*Thanks to Spencer for the new term - I was getting so worn out of the "kool aid" nomenclature.

 

[spencerhut]

While loading APS "belts" isn't a problem, It wouldn't appear to have any advantage over stuffing tubes.

I'll give you one advantage, it's about impossible to load a primer into the strips upside down. And even if you do, it's so easy to spot since you are looking right at them when you are adding a case to station 1 you'd have to be really distracted to miss it. Once a primer goes in a tube, you're not likely going to see it again until it's in a case. I've seen several guys at matches with a click, no bang problem only to find an upside down primer. I'm sure they can produce ammo faster then me, but my primers almost all go in properly. I do get the rare primer in sideways. But I can feel it happen and not one has made it to the powder drop station let alone into my range bag.

 

[CMcDermott]

The APS strips do load much easier and faster than the tubes. When I bought my Pro-2000 it came with a selection of APS strips (different sizes and colors so you can have large pistol strips be easily different than large rifle) and the tool to load the APS strips. This tool is just a big square primer flipping tray with one side having a place to put a APS primer strip with a metal flap that can press the primers into the strip. So you dump a box of 100 primers onto the tray, do the shake to get all the primers flipped upside down, slide in an APS strip and shake some more to let the primers slide over the holes in the strip. When all the holes have a primer sitting in them, get the rest of the primers out of the way and use the metal flap to press the primers all the way into the strip. Then repeat with another APS strip three more times to load the rest of the primers. Takes less than a minute and you have 4 APS strips loaded with 100 primers. Try loading primer tubes that fast and you'll end up with a bunch of primers upside down in your cartridges. Which brings up one of the great things about the APS strips, you can tell if a hole is loaded with an upside down primer and fix it easily. With the tubes you don't know a primer is upside down until the primer is already in the cartridge.

 

[Hawk]

I'm still using the manual primer pick-up tubes, so I'm staring straight at the things as well while I'm loading the pick-up tube. It wouldn't appear likely one could invert going from the pick-up tube to the magazine but "never say never", I guess.

I would be a little skeptical of the automatic vertical primer filler-upper gadget that Dillon sells but I've not yet seen one in the flesh.

My personal preference in primers tends away from CCI so I'd have to get intimate with the belt stuffer - probably just a matter of what one is used to. I've grown accustomed to the contortions needed with the vertical tubes and it seems almost normal now. A minute for a 100 either way. An upside down primer in a black flip-tray is as obvious as a mule at a debutante party.

Still, I like the concept of the APS simply because it's not shared by either the Dillon or the Hornady. It's different; it works. Sauce for the goose, as it were.

 

[woodfiler]

dillon

I have a dillon, and of course i use pick up tubes, i find it hard not to see
a flipped primer. You flip them and then pick them up. But i can't say
never, things do happen. After aloading session i check each round
for primer seating, and or upside down, or a crimped case...

I have the 650 with the powder check alarm.

I'm not defending dillon or any other press, your choice is an individual
thing that fits you and what you want to do.

wood

 

[realbuffdriver]

I chose the RCBS Pro2000 over the Dillon 550 for the following reasons:

Powder measure has micrometer adjustment--I can instantly return to any setting that I've previously determined

APS primer system--Pro2000 comes with the strip loader. You can load 100 primers into the strips in about 2 minutes. I can't imagine that primer tubes would be faster.

5 stations--this enables you to use a lockout die with the Pro2000. In all fairness, the Dillon bells the case and drops powder in a single step, so its 4 stations provide similar service to the 5 stations of the Pro2000. I just think that having 5 stations provides a little more versatility in customizing the process to meet my specific needs.

Cast iron press vs aluminum for the Dillon

Caliber changes for the Pro2000 are less expensive

I've never used a Dillon, but it's my understanding that changing from large to small primers takes several minutes. With the Pro2000, you have only to change a single screw.

Both companies have a reputation for superb customer service.

You might also check the following thread, as there's some good info:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=268833

Cheers,

RealBuffDriver

 

[RustyFN]

I have a question for both sides. I was reading a help post for a Dillon 550 and the person helping was naming parts for one caliber, shell plate #7, locater buttons #5 and so on. It seems like every part had a different number instead of making everything #5 for one caliber and #7 for a different caliber. How hard is it to keep track of all these different parts and knowing which parts go with which calibers?
My next question is how does the RCBS press work as far as having locater buttons and what not? How do you keep the cases in the shell plate, and when you do a caliber change how many small parts are there to keep track of.
Last I just want to say I'm not knocking any press. I think they are both great presses it just depends on what each individual prefers in a press.
Rusty

 

[realbuffdriver]

Pro2000 caliber change:

1. Die Plate

2. Shellplate - This is the only part that RCBS numbers. Look up the number if unsure when changing calibers.

3. Primer seating pin - if changing from small to large or vice versa

4. Update uniflow setting and change drop funnel, if necessary - I keep a list of how many revolutions to screw in the uniflow and which funnel to use for each caliber. I also keep a list of where to set the micrometer for a given throw of a particular powder. That gets me real close, but I always check it with a scale before beginning.

I have all of my die plates labeled for caliber. There's two primer seating pins, one's always in the press, the other in a drawer. There are several different drop tubes and funnels for the uniflow, but I just keep them in a small plastic storage box in a drawer.

No locator buttons. There are small metal springy arms that hold the shell in place at each station. You can easily move them in order to remove and inspect a case at any station.

Cheers,

RealBuffDriver

 

[RustyFN]

Thanks RBD.

 

[WmCC]

First, let me say that the current crop of progressive presses being offered by Dillon, Hornady and Lee are all very good tools with excellent warranties and support. That said, following some five years of hard use, I consider the Pro 2000 to be an exceptional press and have been extremely happy with it.

I previously used both the Dillon 550 and 650 and they each worked extremely well, albeit demonstrating a need for little "piecey" parts from time-to-time. Not an issue with the 2000. My reason for the switch involved the move from loading high volume(s) of a single cartridge, (Bullseye and IDPA competition), to moderate quantities of several different cartridges with fairly frequent changeovers. For me, the 2000 is the quickest and easiest to convert of all of the current offerings, including Dillon and Hornady.

The RCBS is arguably the strongest and simplest progressive available. I prefer iron to aluminum, especially in the critical toggle assembly. The precision and ease of use of both the priming and powder metering systems, respectively, is excellent. I did purchase the optional tube priming system but haven't used it as I've enjoyed the strip system far more than I thought I would. My preference is for manual indexing over auto index. Interestingly, my rate of production did not change between the 650 and 2000; however, to be honest, I did not use (or want) a casefeeder on the former.

If I were starting over again, I would definitely choose the 2000, even for high volume match shooting. It's obvious why it was/is the press of choice of the NRA technical staff and experienced shooters and writers such as John Taffin.

 

[disneyd]

Thanks for all the great info guys!

 

[Outlaws]

I have a question for both sides. I was reading a help post for a Dillon 550 and the person helping was naming parts for one caliber, shell plate #7, locater buttons #5 and so on. It seems like every part had a different number instead of making everything #5 for one caliber and #7 for a different caliber. How hard is it to keep track of all these different parts and knowing which parts go with which calibers?
My next question is how does the RCBS press work as far as having locater buttons and what not? How do you keep the cases in the shell plate, and when you do a caliber change how many small parts are there to keep track of.
Last I just want to say I'm not knocking any press. I think they are both great presses it just depends on what each individual prefers in a press.
Rusty

Because you can buy a caliber conversion kit for $40, but a lot of parts over lap. The buttons and powder funnels are not really expensive, but the shell plate is bulk of the price for the conversion kits...$28 when purchased by itself. So rather than buying a separate kit for 308, 243, and 45ACP, you just buy one shell plate (or use the one out of a previously purchased kit) and then buy the powder funnel die for each at $10, the locator pins for all three of those rounds are also the same, but even if they were not, the pins are only $3 for the three you need. So one kit for $40 each time, or buy what you need.

Dillon has a nice, easy to read, sheet on the back page of the manual and on their website with every cartridge and the 3 items number/letter you need. And they list it both by the cartridge, and a separate page with the sell plate/pin/funnel with ever cartridge it works for under it.

There are a fair amount of shell plates and powder funnels, but there are only 8 different locator pins. But the for example, here is what shell plate number 1 works for. ...imaging spending $28 for every one of those rounds that you load.

(I removed the powder funnel letter and the product number)

Shellplate 1 Locator Button 1
.22 BR
.22-250
.30-06
.300 Savage
.308 - 7.62 Nato
7.7 Japanese Arisaka
7.5 x 55 Swiss
7.65 Bel-Arg
.40 Super/ .400 Corbon
.45 ACP
.240 Wby. Mag.
.243 Win.
6mm BR 6PPC
6mm Rem.- .244
.260 Rem./6.5x284
.270 Win.
.284 Win.
7mm-08 Rem.
7x 57 Mauser
7 x 64 Brenneke
7mm Ex - 280 Rem.
.250 Savage-.250/3000
.25-06
.257 Ack. Imp
.257 Roberts
8mm Mauser
7mm BR
7mm Int’l
.358 Win. P
.35 Whelen P
6.5-06
6.5 x 55 Swed Mauser

And the other style of listing.

Rifle-Caliber Conversions

.17 Remington - # 20203
#3 Shellplate - # 13684
#O Powder Funnel - # 12921
#3 Locator Pin - # 14060

.204 Ruger - # 20307
#3 Shellplate - # 13684
#204 Rifle Powder Funnel - # 20322
#3 Locator Pin - # 14060

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Title of thread caught my eye...

I reload 30-06 on a Pro2000 and .223 on a 550B.

I like them both. Truthfully, I think I have to be a little more careful with the 2000, it's not as easy to clean up if I have a jam or miscue. I did take off the auto- spin and made it manual.
I don't change calibers on any of my progressives so the chang-out features are meaningless t me.

I don't think you can go far wrong wit either one...after thousands of rounds on each, I have to say I like them both equally.

 

[spencerhut]

Pro 2000 unique items for a caliber change.

Die plate: One per caliber you choose to setup $13.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=636439

Shell Plate: One shell plate can work for many calibers $27.49
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=249478

Star Wheel: You need one for each shell plate:$8.49 http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=1035

So worst case is $50.00 for unique parts plus dies. If you are setup for .45 Automatic already you need only get the Die plate for new dies if you want to load .308 Winchester, $13.00. Same for all the other calibers that share common head dimensions, you just need to get die plates.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I just buy a shell plate for different calibers. I reuse the same star wheel and die plate that came with it. Thus caliber changes are $27 and change.

Compare that to other companies.

I can flip a caliber in and out in about 2 to 3 minutes if I clean the press while I am there. It goes very quickly. But I really don't care. I tend to load the same setup for a week at a time. I try to run a couple thousand rounds down the setup before I change so quick change over is not needed.

 

[Grump]

I was reading a help post for a Dillon 550 and the person helping was naming parts for one caliber, shell plate #7, locater buttons #5 and so on. It seems like every part had a different number instead of making everything #5 for one caliber and #7 for a different caliber. How hard is it to keep track of all these different parts and knowing which parts go with which calibers?

Well, some caliber "pairs" like .40 S&W and 9mm share a common diameter on the *inside* of the extractor groove, the extractor rim thickness and pretty much the slope of the angle at the front of that groove. But one is a bit larger in *outside* diameter. Thus, they take the same shellplate but different locator buttons, so the .40 doesn't jam between the low-orbit inside the curve part of the shellplate, and the button which sorta holds the cases from drifting out of the shellplate's "U" shaped cut.

Been there and done that for changing a shellplate and forgetting to change out the buttons. Some combos still work, others let the case slop around so much you get cases crunched by the powder funnel die (through expander for straight-wall cases). Get it loose enough and you can have the case slip off of the shellplate. Ugly. BTDT.