Disappointing results with RBCD ammo and Scandium snubby

[22luvr]

I just got back from the range with another internet forum acquaintence and would like to pass on my experience.

It was the first time I'd had the chance to test RBCD's in my 340SC. They were a total failure on three fronts:

First, ALL of the RBCD's jumped their crimp and jammed rounds against the forcing cone. When I carefully removed the offending rounds, they were so loose that I could practically pull the projectiles off the casings with my fingers!

Second, the recoil, which I anticipated to be milder due to the lightweight 60 gr projectile and standard pressure loading was every bit as violent and nasty as any full-pressure 125 gr round!

Third, compared to other .357 mag rounds I've fired (plenty of'em) the RBCD's were much worse in muzzle and gap flash.....an unacceptably VERY bright, intense flash.

I then shot some Georgia Arms 125 gr SJHP's in .38 spcl through the gun and checked the last round to be fired for looseness or jumping crimp. They all stayed as tight as can be. The gun shoots .38 spcls like a dream. RBCD is very premium ammo and I expected it to stay tighter than it did. Bummer.

People warned me about the Scandiums but, NO, I just had to try one for myself. So, I have a VERY expensive .357 magnum that's good at shooting .38 spcls! I will likely sell the gun, take my losses and return back to my tried-and-true steel snubbies.

I can hear the "see, I told you so's" echoing throughout forum-land. Oh well.

 

[mikey357]

...I'll give ya' a hunnerd dollars--American cash money, too!--we can meet at the gunshow in McDonough this weekend...semi-tongue-in-cheek....mikey357

 

[Jim March]

Ya, it's a bullet-yanker all right. Sigh.

The Winchester 130 Supreme 38+P is a good round out of 2", and it's probably not gonna jump crimp. That'd be my first choice in that gun. Lead hollowpoint 38+P probably WILL jump crimp.

 

[Blackhawk]

Thanks for the report, Jeff.

The RBCD saga continues....

 

[ChristopherG]

Au contraire, Jim. I've shot many +P LSWCHP through mine without any jumping. In fact, of probably a score of different kinds of ammo, including maybe 10 .357s, only one (Winchester Silvertips) jumped significantly.

22luvr, let me suggest you try Golden Saber .357s, or Hydrashok 130gr. .357s, both moderately loaded, 125 gr. & 130 gr., respectively, quality loads. Sorry the RCBDWS didn't work for you--I've never tried it.

cg

 

[Mark IV Series 80]

You may want to trade it for one of the S&W Airweight snubbies.

The Airweights are now +P rated, and I've never had a .38 Special +P, 158 grain, LSWCHP (or any other round) jump crimp.

 

[Old Fuff]

Rather then dump the gun why not use standard velocity .38 Special loads untill you find a better .38 or .357 load. I'm sure if there isn't one on the market there soon will be.

The ultra-light, snub nose revolver has it's place, but you need to pick ammunition that's compatable (and confortable) in it. Given a little time you may end up winning the game. Don't quit too soon.

Last but not least, you can handload the .357 Magnum to a lower performance level that will still work. Muzzle blast and pulled crimps are not the answer.

 

[BigG]

The Federal 158g JSP 357 Magnum loads will not jump crimp. In my limited experience the snubs shoot more to point of aim with 158 grain (unless Smith changed the std sight profile which I doubt).

 

[Catbird]

I have a fairly new S&W 340PD and have been experimenting with different ammunition.

During my last shooting session, I was disappointed (but not shocked) to find that the .357 Remington Golden Sabers would jump their crimps. Specifically, when I loaded the cylinder with 5 rounds, after I shot the first 4, the last round's OAL was preventing the cylinder from turning.

Since I'm a reloader, I've decided to take my remaining factory GS rounds and give them an extra heavy crimp in my die. If that won't hold 'em nothin' will.

Also, take a look at these... you can purchase the loaded ammo or just the bullets (projectiles):

http://www.villagemetalworks.com/

 

[Kahr carrier]

What are you asking for your 340??? Seriously I would just test different loads out your bound to find some that will suit your needs.

 

[10-Ring]

Give it a couple hundred rounds before you sell it! If you shoot it deliberately, what kind of groups can you expect? Might be a case of just getting used to it.

 

[tomkatz]

the manual says not to shoot any magnum ammo less than 120gr, so going by that this ammo would have been off limits anyway, a couple friends of mine shoot these little monsters, there is definately ammo that will work....tom

 

[22luvr]

Not so fast, fellas !!

Nope, not for sale, it's just a temporary setback that will be corrected with better ammo, don't you think?? It shoots ALL .38 spcl loads beautifully and it's as light as a feather. However I did buy it so I could carry .357's in it if I chose.

I'm certainly not a "tough guy" by any stretch of the imagination but I have shot this gun with .357 ammo in it, handled the recoil, made quick follow-up shots, and produced effective groupings. What did I use for ammo? Good grief - el cheapo Atlanta Arms 125 gr SJHP reloads and NONE of them jumped crimp!

Still, I'd rather find a premium .357 carry ammo that:
1. doesn't jump crimp.
2. reduces recoil as much as can be expected in a 12 oz snub.
3. a load that exhibits a minimum of gap/muzzle flash.

My groups are clustered about 3" from POA at the 2 o'clock position. Don't know if that is the gun itself or simply me getting used to the DA pull characteristics. (??) Anyone venture a guess as to whether it's the gun or the operator? I suspect it's "operator error."

Thanks for letting me share this and appreciate the helpful responses/suggestions.

 

[280PLUS]

i refer you to my post on the S&W 332 / .32 mag

and the ensuing thread...

youre right though, so you power down the loads and what do you have but a .357 shooting .38's, i'm tellin' ya's, get out of the big bore rut and try one of these sweet little .32 mags., the federal hy-shoks seem to hit the target where i'm aiming but i actually have to aim low and to the left to put the wadcutters and stuff in the middle. oh, i almost forgot, isnt your's sa/da? meaning theres a stop point between the rotation of the cylinder into position and the release of the hammer. finding the spot (if its really there, i'm not sure about your model) and practice using it may improve your accuracy/consistency. i do not recommend, however, that in a real life situation you attempt to cock and not fire your hammerless pistol while pointing it at your subject, it is VERY easy to slip right through the stop point and have it discharge unintentionally ( especially if your adrenaline is pumping). i would cock it and THEN bring it to bear on the offending party, if my intention was to not use deadly force immediately.

I just checked s&w and they show the 340 as da with no mention of sa so i dont know what the story is with yours. mine is listed as sa/da and works that way.

regards

m

 

[tomkatz]

280 +.....the 340 has a totally hidden hammer....tom

 

[dude]

what exacty is 'jumping crimp'?? I have been .357 revolver shooting for 20-ish years and have never heard of it. My Taurus titanium .357 snub has never given me a problem with full power loads.


..and you are not supposed to shoot <125g magnum loads out of non steel cylinders because of face errosion issues.


(and what is RBCD ammo)

 

[Jim March]

"Jumping crimp" is when the recoil is so psycho that on a 5-shot gun, by the time you've shot off four rounds the 5th has been yanked clean out of the shell partway by the recoil of the first 4 shots. The last round is now "stretched" and sticks out the front of the cylinder, locking the gun up but good (trigger won't pull!).

This is a BAD thing.

It happens with very light guns. Your TI piece is still heavy enough that this is rarely an issue.

The Scandium pieces are just nuts...your basic "WAY too much of a good thing" (lightness).

 

[dude]

...........you are the first one to refer to my 13.9 oz .357 as 'heavy enough'


hell, when they handed me the pistol and case when I bought it, I opened it up to make sure it was in there!

 

[TexasRifleman]

Jumping Crimp...

I have found only 2 brands that reliably stay seated, regardless of recoil in my Scandium monster.

.357 - Speer Gold Dot
.38+P Remington Nyclad.

Both are rock solid, I've run a few hundred of each to make sure.

But, thats all I have found so far

 

[colorado4570]

Tomkat is the only one to have brought up the fact that the 340PD manual explicitly states not to use ammo with bullets less than 120 grains in the gun. In fact, it is also written RIGHT ON THE BARREL. I quote, reading the barrel of my 340 pd, "NO LESS THAN 120 GRAIN BULLET".

Gents, I don't know how much more clear S&W can be...

Also, for the recoil sensitive, instead of using full power 180 gr hunting ammo and then complaining about the recoil, just tone it down a bit an use a midrange load. These are fine guns for close range, last ditch self defense.

As the manual also states, you have to experiment with your intended loads to ensure that your bullets do not jump the crimp. Golden Sabres work well in mine.

 

[Jim March]

Ehhh...I have to point out that the ".38+P Remington Nyclad" load probably doesn't exist, as "Nyclad" is a trademark of the FEDERAL cartridge company, a competitor to Remington...

 

[Wildalaska]

Oboy what till the 44 mag scandium is out!

WildouchAlaska

 

[JCM298]

Scandium

I've only shot 125 rounds thru my 340. I used three factory loads, Rem/125 gr, Fed/130 gr, & PMC/158 gr. These were used to sight in my Crimson Trace grips. After that, I switched to my 158 gr re-loads. There was never any indication of bullet pull with either factory or re-loads.

BUT, even with shootings gloves on, I bled. Fortunately the blood cleans off Sc/Ti easily.

This well be carried often but seldom shot.
John

 

[22luvr]

Duh, I don't get it.....

I've notice that a good many of you who shoot the 340SC or 340PD complain of drawing blood. From what? Maybe it's my grip but I've never come close to lacerating my hands/fingers yet. I will admit to a sore web between my fingers and thumb because that's where most of the recoil is absorbed. The cylinder latch never seems to get close to my thumb as my left thumb stays down and I utilize a really strong left-handed wraparound grip.

The last time I gashed my hand was shooting my son's H&K .40 cal USP compact. ( got my thumb real good on the slider )

I'm also beginning to get some flash stains around the front of the cylinder which I think is permanent. The Titanium cylinder seems to be more porous than stainless steel. Oh well.....

 

[Gila Jorge]

Good grief: and I was concerned about shooting 44 mags in my Mtn Gun....much prefer 44 Spcls. And shoot 38+Ps in my 60LS. Don't need hand cannons.
Darn certain don't want John Taffins wrist problems. Too many heavy loads over too many years. Tone it down for crying out loud.