Discussion- Full Autos not signifigantly more lethal.

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If you think that the real wording to that passage automatically gives you the right to own any and every type of firearm, you will be in a distinct minority in this country.
Unfortunately, you're probably right. It is a poor reflection on our public school systems when a majority of Americans have no perception of what "shall not be infringed" means. There are no exceptions listed in the Second Amendment.

I have no problems with lawful private ownership of firearms, but certain types of weapons such as FA need more controls placed on them than others in the interest of public safety. As in so many other issues, the public on this issue has a valid interest in restraining private rights in the interest of public safety.
This is just dangerous. Where in the Constitution does it say that the "collective right" supercedes the Bill of Rights? What about the citizens' collective right to have all their liberties intact? I'm sure that the oh-so-wise aristocrats will know EXACTLY what to do in order to keep all of us irresponsible, freedom-loving citizens safe. Hey, just lock us all away in jail cells and the public safety will be secure! Screw the private rights! Isn't that right? There you go, your perfect society. I'd much rather live in a country that is TRULY free than to have this false sense of security given to us by restricting individual rights. We'll handle the baddies as they come up.
 
2. Things like this would be illegal.

Things like that are legal because they don't meet the language of any current bans. They still fire only one round per pull of the trigger and they don't have a folding stock. Under the proprosed "updated" AWB versions banning ALL magazines over 10 rounds, even these would be effectively neutered.

Using the flipside of the argument, "If it were REALLY about how many rounds you could put downrange in a certain amount of time," if it were REALLY about how many rounds you could put down range, wouldn't the pictured firearm be used in large numbers of murders, robberies and school shootings?

I have no problems with lawful private ownership of firearms, but certain types of weapons such as FA need more controls placed on them than others in the interest of public safety. As in so many other issues, the public on this issue has a valid interest in restraining private rights in the interest of public safety.

I've seen folks with a very similar viewpoint of protecting public safety voicing their concerns over the Internet. They claim that since the founding fathers never conceived anything like the Internet, the First Amendment doesn't cover its absolute freedom of use. They state the large amount of easily accessible pornography, the endless SPAM which causes some elderly people to send their life savings overseas in ripoffs, and chat rooms were perverts can prey on children, show the need for government restrictions on who can use the Internet and the content allowed.

Following the Gulf War, there were even reporters claiming the imbedded reporters and the Internet were a bad thing. They said the average citizen wasn't capable of reading the raw reports and seeing the uncensored images and reaching a knowledgeable conclusion. They needed network news reporters to sort it all out and give concise reports the masses could handle.

That is one of the very reasons the founding fathers thought the BORs was so important. They decided to let each individual make their own decisions on what was right for them, not the government or some other "concerned" group seeking "reasonable controls."

You think some restrictions on machinegun ownership are legitimate for public safety. Diane Feinstein thinks bans on folding stocks are legitimate for public safety. Sarah Brady thinks a complete ban on the ownership of handguns is needed for public safety.

Why should you, Diane Feinstein or Sarah Brady have anything to say about what firearms I can buy? If we are going to allow restrictions, who gets to determine the level of restrictions? You may rest assured that if it is left up to Diane Feinstein, she will eventually get to some "class" of firearm you do care about.
 
I really don't need a fully automatic weapon, but I sure do want one!! Hopefully in the next year I will be able to purchase one.
 
As in so many other issues, the public on this issue has a valid interest in restraining private rights

But the fictitious creature known as "the public" has no moral basis for restraining any of my rights, no matter how interested it is in doing so...

Then again, we live in a nation where people who agonize over Friends going off the air are allowed to decide, by proxy, how I should live. :rolleyes:
 
I find it hard to belive that the element of full-atuo increases lethality any more than 30% over a semi-auto. Sometimes I think lethality would be decreased (given finite ammo, full auto resulting in fewer hits/shots-fired.)


Discuss?

Discussion is moot, as you are merely fantasizing.

Fully automatic weapons legally owned by American citizens have a better safety record than butter knives, pit bulls, pantyhose and any other mundane object that has ever been used to kill a human being.

Since 1934, a fully automatic weapon legally owned by an American citizen has NEVER been used in the commission of a crime, let alone murder.

Now, if we include the government in our little discussion, it becomes clear that THEY are the ones who should be restricted from owning them, as two police officers have used their autos in the commission of crimes. (True, one was his personal weapon, but since he was an LEO, I do not consider it a "civilian" incident.)
 
Since 1934, a fully automatic weapon legally owned by an American citizen has NEVER been used in the commission of a crime, let alone murder.

No, there was at least one. A cop in Indiana used his personally owned MAC in a murder back in the '80s.

Did I mention he was a cop?
 
No, there was at least one. A cop in Indiana used his personally owned MAC in a murder back in the '80s.

Did I mention he was a cop?

From my post directly above yours:


Now, if we include the government in our little discussion, it becomes clear that THEY are the ones who should be restricted from owning them, as two police officers have used their autos in the commission of crimes. (True, one was his personal weapon, but since he was an LEO, I do not consider it a "civilian" incident.)
 
Significantly more lethal? A bullet is a bullet is a bullet.

More effective for a knowledgable wielder? Significantly!

Those who have used machine guns and subguns on actual human beings know that they are far more EFFECTIVE at killing than a semi version of the same make / model. This of course being IF they are used in proper terrain. I.e. a M16 is not any more effective than an AR15 at 600-700 yards. You are still going to be hitting the target just once. But especially in a CQB situation, FA makes a big difference in it's effectiveness at killing your target.

This is because every person is hit with 3-6 rounds instead of 1.

Well, I was going to write more, but I just lost interest :)

Semper Fidelis
 
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