Disturbing thread on another site

[Win1892]

Was looking on tractor forums for service advice on my Kubota and landed at a tractor forum thread about stopping theft with an electrical disconnect of some kind. The first three posts were on topic and then the trouble began.

Numerous posters chimed in that stopping theft was impossible and that was what insurance was for. One person indicated that he was a gun totin' preacher and all of his neighbors knew it, and that led a number of of posters jumping on the liberal soapbox and bashing any hint of stopping theft with a firearm.

At least 25 different posters said that any attempt to stop farm theft was a waste of time. That's 25 people who have agreed to let the criminals win.

What's wrong with these people?

If I had posted an inquiry about protecting my tractor on this forum the thread would have absolutely gone in a different direction, until the mods moved it of course.

We THR users are truly the sheepherders of society. Are we the last bastion of self reliance?

 

[floorit76]

Reminds me about a theft a few years ago in the medium sized town up the road a few years ago. The guy left his car unlocked and it was broken into. The trouble started after the article in the paper, when several people used the papers "Open line" to write in that the guy "Deserved" to be stolen from because he was too "stupid" to lock his doors. So people know it's wrong to steal if there is a lock, but an open door means take my stuff?

 

[dab102999]

I guess it would depend on the state of residency of the posters. I dont believe in michigan theft alone is good enough reason to discharge a firearm. And even if it was i myself would probably not go that route if i didnt feel threatened. I have insurance and even if it was something that wasnt covered i am sure my lawyer bills would surpass the cost of the item. This is just my view though. I would not tell someone else what to do in that situation unless i knew for sure they would be doing something illegal.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Interesting. I guess there's pacifists everywhere. A cutoff switch is like $4.

 

[buck460XVR]

Remember the phrase, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"? Farm theft, like any other type of theft is preventable to an extent, but keeping professionals from taking something they really want is difficult. For the average citizen, to use a firearm to stop a theft in progress is asking for trouble, not only by endangering themselves, but also from a legal standpoint. Shooting someone for attempting to steal a tractor battery(or even the tractor) will get you thrown in jail in every state but Texas I believe and will cost you a hellava lot more than what the battery is worth.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Reminds me about a theft a few years ago in the medium sized town up the road a few years ago. The guy left his car unlocked and it was broken into. The trouble started after the article in the paper, when several people used the papers "Open line" to write in that the guy "Deserved" to be stolen from because he was too "stupid" to lock his doors. So people know it's wrong to steal if there is a lock, but an open door means take my stuff?

Maybe he parked it by the curb. A lot of people put like old couches and stuff by the curb and a "free" sign by it. jk

 

[blarby]

Are we the last bastion of self reliance?

Frequently, but not always.

Seems every week there is a new case of a gun-owner stopping a crime, often to mixed private and public review. Not all of them are THR members.

I'd say we are more frequently the last bastion of intelligent reasoning in such affairs.

 

[Guvnor]

I agree with above post, I don't think the theft of property outside of your home warrants the use of deadly force. If someone broke into my actual dwelling, the law of my state says they have crossed a line in which it would then be justifiable to respond with deadly force. I agree with this. But I would never want to shoot someone because of both the moral and legal ramifications if they were simply stealing a GPS or IPod from my car or even stealing the entire car for that matter. Property can be replaced but your family can't.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Remember the phrase, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"? Farm theft, like any other type of theft is preventable to an extent, but keeping professionals from taking something they really want is difficult. For the average citizen, to use a firearm to stop a theft in progress is asking for trouble, not only by endangering themselves, but also from a legal standpoint. Shooting someone for attempting to steal a tractor battery(or even the tractor) will get you thrown in jail in every state but Texas I believe and will cost you a hellava lot more than what the battery is worth.

I think battery is against the law in Texas too.

 

[General Geoff]

I agree with above post, I don't think the theft of property outside of your home warrants the use of deadly force.

Why do armored car guards carry guns?

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

This seems to be about more about tractors and theft than firearms.

 

[Sam1911]

We THR users are truly the sheepherders of society. Are we the last bastion of self reliance?

Honestly, while I've traditionally very strongly favored both self-reliance and self-defense, my time involved with gun forums has moderated my knee-jerk reactions quite a bit.

For every "pacifist" I see, I seem to see a half-dozen guys who are just itchin' to put some lead into anyone who tries to mess with their "stuff." We see the poorest of understandings of self-defense law, and even poorer grasps of the laws that might pertain to defense of property. At least once a week we see advice that would (or should) put people in prison. And to compound that, about 90% of that advice (both technically unlawful and technically lawful) is so grossly tactically unsound that if the homeowner doesn't end up in jail, he stands a GREAT chance of ending up in the morgue.

(To say nothing of picking apart the ethical or moral concerns over whether a piece of replaceable property is worth ending the life of any human being.)

I don't know that THR is any "last great hope" for anything, but I do know that we work very, very hard to help people understand the law and how it is likely to apply to a situation they might find themselves in, and to understand the incredible personal risk that willingly stepping out armed to confront a criminal entails.

So, sure a lot of those "pacifists" may be blissninnies or sheep (or whatever the epithet of the day is this week), but some of them may endure a property theft and go on to live a pleasant, fulfilled, free, and LONG life, where a very great deal of the advice given by the "self-reliance" crowd would likely result in either life as a felon or death.

Yes, each person is ultimately responsible for their own safety and that of their family. But it is almost too frustrating to say so considering how catastrophically overboard many of "us" are willing to go in stretching that truth out beyond all reason or the rule of law.

 

[Sam1911]

Why do armored car guards carry guns?

Great question!

To protect THEMSELVES. They are charged with transporting valuables in such a way as to make it difficult for someone to steal. They carry guns to defend THEMSELVES if they are personally attacked in the pursuit of that task. They have no legal standing to shoot someone for trying to take money or valuables, nor to shoot them in order to get back something someone has stolen.