DNA on file

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DE,

If they need my DNA, they'd better have probable cause and a court order.

If the government has no business regestering firearms, inquiring about your sexual preferences, or mandating that you specify your religious beliefs, they certainly have no right to the genetic blueprint of who I am.
 
Delta,

"Since you claim to have experience with DNA, just what is your vocation and experience in this realm?
Do you have any experience in the legal system?
Have you ever testified in court?"

It's not just claim.
Molecular biologist involved in DNA testing since 1990. (I believ the FBI cranked up in about '88 or so) Somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 criminal DNA cases for the prosecution. About 2% that many of the defense. Uncounted other types of identity applications all as an analyst. Now more involved in opeartions and adminsitration of those that turn the cranks. Have been involved directly in CODIS profiling projects for several states and metro crime labs in the past, as I am now.

Legal sys experience...testified...double yep.

I never said there was anything wrong with the current technology. Only with the uses some would put it to. Those are very different things. Guns don't kill people, peoplel kill people kind of a thing.

I would perfer not to call anyone a fascist. If you believe you have fully informed yourself about the topics I have addressed to the extent you can make a sound critical decision to support putting juv. arrestees into CODIS it has nothing to do fascism. You are deciding, based on what you preceive to be the facts.
I do that all the time as do we all. I'm wrong occassionally because I don't have all the facts as you are now. Has nothing to do with fascism.

"The chance for the planting of evidence is present, but you have a better chance of winning the powerball than being a victim of a DNA planting consipiracy."

Nothing about the technology allows you to know what is legit and what is not. Only the ID of the donor. If you think the chances of a misadventure are so small, try running searches on terms like:
Joyce Gilcrest
Fred Zane
Problems at the FBI Lab ( that will get you 2 different sets of probelms, years apart)

That will get you started. Come back and I PM you some more if you like.

"One assumption that many seem to be making is that DNA will immediately make you guilty, it will do this no more than a fingerprint would. It will make you a suspect and be used as an investigative tool, but without other elements, it should not prove anyones guilt.
There would still be the need for motive, oppurtunity, etc."

Lots or people believe that .....but just in case do a search on the name:
Josiah Sutton, a pretty recent example out of Houston, Texas
it goes a lot farther than an investigative tool too often. Wonder how he will get those years back! The link suggestions above should have been an eye opener also. In many of these cases DNA alone clobbered the innocent or overpowered all kinds of other evidence that would have helped free the innocent but accused party.

"As I have said previously, I am much more concerned with the use of genetic profiling by Le and the medical community than I am its use in the criminal investigation realm'

You should be worried about all of it, db included. Given the POV of a man like Chief Moose in DC why would you be comfortable a LEO like him has access to ANY DNA technology given his use of profiling in what looks so much like a racially biased way?

When used right, there is no bigger supporter of DNA technology than me. Untill someone does a crime and is convicted for it, no government agency should have someones DNA profile regardless of his or her age.

Here is the real killer. I am absolutley in favor of DNA db and biometric cards for every person visiting the US or caught here illegally. It makes me white hot some in our governemnt want all of us (honest citizens, our kids, and Granny) in a db but not the illegals, drug smugglers and potential terrorists that come and go with complete freedom.

Over and out>>>>>
S-
 
I had a lenghty response, but the darn errornet ate it. grrrrrrrr

Anyway, I have much reading and thinking to do, needless to say.
I don't like the idea of anyone having a genetic blueprint of me or anyone else, the potential for abuse is even greater than the potential of abuse of DNA evidence.

We have the technology, now it has to be used without malice, which is the hard part when power, money and govt are involved.

Selfdfenz,
Sorry for questioning you credentials, I must have read someone elses profile, since I thought you were in a completely different career field. My bad. :eek:

Regrads,
Mike
 
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I don't like the idea of anyone having a genetic blueprint of me or anyone else, the potential for abuse is even greater than the potential of abuse of DNA evidence.
Click to expand...


Huh?


DNA = Genetic Blueprint


Of course, using marker regions from whole genomic DNA or short fragments containing these doesn't provide a complete picture. Still, it is like pulling a few of the same pages out of that blueprint to compare to everyone else's copies of the same page; the unscrupulous could go back to the original and look for additional info.
 
"One assumption that many seem to be making is that DNA will immediately make you guilty, it will do this no more than a fingerprint would. It will make you a suspect and be used as an investigative tool, but without other elements, it should not prove anyones guilt.
Click to expand...
OK how about this scenereo:

You are arrested, DNA typed and then released, maybe for the crime of "driving while black". Then ten years later you shed a few hairs in a 7-11 store. The store gets robbed. The floor sweep finds the hairs, they get a match from your archived DNA.

Probable cause for questioning, but they get a secret search warrent because you "fit the profile".

You get the proverbial midnight knock on the door. They search your house, find your gun collection then 'way back in the guest bedroom they find the butt of a marijuana joint your grandson's college friend dropped during a visit last spring break. They keep looking and in the paper recycling pile they find a book by Ragner Bensen that your wife, knowing you liked guns, got you at a garage sale. Then the find your grandmother's hat in the attic with it's cute little design made of owl feathers.

So now they have you for a big cluster of felonies that you didn't commit. what now? Plea bargain?
 
Replace DNA with fingerprint and your scenario is the same.
So how is it really any different with the term DNA?
Click to expand...

It's not.

What makes you assume that everyone here is cool with a fingerprint database?

Both make a mockery of the presumption of innocence...
 
I guess we shall just have to disagree Tamara, I don't see how fingerprints effect the presumption of innocence.
There has to be a way to tell if the person you charged with a crime is the same person you have at trial and pictures just don't cut it with 250 million people in our country, that is what fingerprints accomplish, in addition to being a crime solving tool.
Now I am seeing how DNA, since it is not needed to tell individuals apart for the legal purposes I mentioned above, does infringe upon the presumption of innocence.
So I can be swayed by logical reasoning. ;)

So I do see how DNA should only be used as an after conviction tool.
Wow and it only took all day to get me to this point.

In fact prints are used to protect the innocent.
I had a guy on Monday that was using two of his brothers names, first one then the other, we didn't believe him when he gave either name.
The fingerprints proved who he was and prevented his brothers from being charged with the burglary that he had committed.
I am sure his brothers are happy about that.

My DNA was taken to clear me from an allegation that an emotionally disturbed woman made.
So unlike President Clinton, I can say truthfully, that I did not have sex with that woman. :D
 
I don't think there should be any databses like this. No fingerprint, DNA, ballistic, etc. They can all ruin an innocent person's life. These databses do not protect the innocent. They simply put people through the system, mostly bad, some good. Things like this can also lead to a lot of abuse.

I agree on the 10mm, just wish they were cheaper.
 
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