Do cap and ball revolvers require a permit

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Smokepole14

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I have heard that cap and ball revolvers are not considered real guns although they still shoot and are capable of killing someone:scrutiny:. When i bought my 58 remington from cabelas i didn't have to fill out any papers like you do when you by a modern gun. Why are these revolvers considred not real but the T/C guns are. They both use black powder and a bullet, but what sets them apart there no different except one uses more powder with more velocity. cap and ball revolvers were one of the main killing guns used back in the 1800's. So i was wandering if this is true do you have to have a permit to carry one, say like if your on your own property. Any info on this would be very helpful since it might keep someone from getting a felony.
 
In my dealings, anything that is a replica, the store/pawn shop will not fill out a yellow form.

if it's an inline, they are sometimes considered a modern weapon and most often the store/dealer will fill out a yellow sheet on you.

Blackpowder or modern weapon, you should never need a permit to carry on your own property unless you are listed as a prohibited person (felon, mental patient, etc..)

As the nice officer once explained to me, that yes, they are not a weapon according to the feds, but if you commit a crime while carrying one, it will be considered a firearm by the state.. (Texas) .. YMMV
 
My understanding is that under Federal regulations, a Cap & Ball Revolver is not considered to be a Fire Arm under the letter of the Law, as an object, for purposes of Interstate Commerce or Mail.

State Laws, and County Ordinances will have their own opinions.

People who for having had felony or some misdemeanor or spousal domestic Battery convictions, may be prohibited from owning or being in households which have Cap & Ball Revolvers.


On and on...

But overall, if of legal age, and no criminal background or other technical restraint on one's self, one can generally buy a Cap & Ball Revolver through the Mail with no issues.

Whether or not one's local Laws require one to then Register it with the County Sheriff, or, the State, or both, is another matter.
 
Believe it or not, but in California it's not considered a firearm. It's not considered loaded, even with all chambers loaded with powder and balls/conicals, unless the percussion caps are on the nipples!
Of course that doesn't make any sense because if it's not a firearm then why regulate it's loading condition??
 
Law is all about 'Language' and arguments of Language.

It is about substituting Language ( which can be manipulated easily ) for 'reality' ( which often can not be manipulated easily)...so langauge has to then try and manipulate and distort perception.

Common Sense and sanity and rationality tend to suffer and be insulted or rebuked in proportion to the amount of Laws imposed on them, especially when the Laws are written by people who typically lack all three.
 
According to my research, Blackpowder firearms aren't classified as firearms on the federal level, therefore, there's usually no paperwork involved in buying them interstate and they can be mailed by the Postal Service to an individual's home instead of an FFL.

Several states have differing opinions on BP, though. Some allow BP longarms of all types to go without any sort of registration or paperwork, but treat BP handguns as regular handguns. Some treat inlines as regular firearms. Some mail order companies want a signed statement or a photocopy of your DL as proof that you're of age according to their state laws or their personal preference to CYA.

On a federal level, convicts are allowed to own BP firearms, as are people with Domestic Violence records, as long as they're off probation. (I know a couple of non-violent felons who are actually allowed to possess regular firearms during hunting season, they have a document from a judge). I know a couple of guys with DV's that own several BP handguns and rifles. There is a huge gray area concerning the conversion cylinders. I guess as long as they are able to remove the cylinders before the law gets to them, they're okay.

In MS, you are not allowed to carry a BP handgun concealed without a CCW permit. Most states have laws concerning "nonfirearms" used as firearms during a crime, like replicas, water pistols, or even your finger hidden in your pocket. We had a guy recently sentenced to using a firearm to rob a bank who used his fingers in his pocket in his attempt. His sentence would have been lighter if he used a knife out in the open, unless he called it a gun.

States also have laws concerning the legal minimum age to own and purchase BP, caps, and guns. Unfortunately, I've been legal for 20 years, so I don't know what the minimums are here in MS. I'm assuming the minimum age is 18, but I can't remember if Walmart is enforcing it as strongly as selling "R" rated movies or "M" rated games.

No one has challenged me, but I have a gray beard and look fat and respectable.:)

In MS, your motor vehicle is an extension of your home; you can carry loaded handguns in your car, motor home, or even on your bike. You can wear a concealed weapon while driving your motor vehicle or in your home, or on your property or business (if you're driving in your home..sweet!:) ). Your employees and guests can carry concealed, likewise. Of course there's a gray area when you get off your bike. You have to be careful or be accused of brandishing while you're stashing your pistol away. MS also allows open carry, but I've only seen it a few times. We're allowed to carry unloaded long arms in our vehicles, that's an anti-poaching thing. I saw a guy on the back of a rice rocket wearing insulated coveralls on his way home from hunting with a rifle slung across his back. MS also made it illegal for employers to discriminate against employees who have weapons in their car.

MS has no state or local registration process, there's just the yellow sheet if you buy it new, that's it. The state even passed a law prohibiting counties and municipalities from creating gun laws. One of my friendly neighborhood gun dealers told me she's had a lot of people moving from other states that bring their firearms in to "register" them. She's told them and argued with them and they leave upset that they couldn't register them there and go to another store to get the same thing told to them.
 
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Don't kid yourselves, they are a firearm, commit a crime with one and you will be charged as if you used a modern weapon. However, they are exempt from firearm laws as they do not use fixed ammunition, ie, a brass cartridge.
 
They might not be considered a firearm under the Federal (and some state) laws, but check your local laws that pertain to carrying a concealed weapon, which they become when, well, concealed.
 
Uhh..that's what I just said. I said,"In MS you're NOT allowed to carry a BP concealed unless you have a CCW. Most states have laws concerning "nonfirearms" used as firearms during a crime, like replicas, water pistols, or even your finger hidden in your pocket."

I put "nonfirearms" in quotes because legally they're not firearms, but they are firearms in reality and you will get in trouble if you misuse them.
 
Uuh...I wasn't talking about carrying during the commission of a crime, or misuse of a BP revolver - just that the carrying itself might be a crime. And I was responding to the question of the original poster.
 
There is a huge gray area concerning the conversion cylinders. I guess as long as they are able to remove the cylinders before the law gets to them, they're okay.
Actually the status of percussion revolvers with cartridge cylinders installed is very well defined.

Under Federal law, an individual is allowed to manufacture and possess a gun for his own use, and use it, without paying any excise tax or obtaining a license to do so. He may not sell, rent or give away the gun without paying an excise tax. If the gun uses modern (cartridge) ammunition any transfer of ownership must be done in accordance with the rules pertaining to any cartridge gun (eg, using an FFL in interstate commerce).

If one owns an antique firearm (defined as a gun which does not use modern, cartridge ammunition) or a replica of an antique firearm, transfer of ownership is not required to be through a licensee (FFL) even if transferred in interstate commerce.

Converting a percussion revolver to a cartridge revolver by changing the cylinder is considered 'manufacturing' a gun for personal use. Thus it is not restricted or taxed, but it must not be sold, rented or given away. You may replace the cartridge cylinder and convert the gun back to a percussion revolver for sale, and such a sale would not require an FFL. The cartridge cylinder may then be sold to the same (or a different) buyer in a separate transaction as the sale of a cylinder is not restricted or taxed.♠
 
I know that where I live (western NY) you can own a BP handgun without a permit as long as you don't own the ammo to load it. Once you own all the pieces (caps, powder and balls) necessary to make it a weapon, it's no longer an antique display piece to the powers that be and it's gotta be on your permit.
 
Mail order is one reason I like cap and ball guns, but they're real handguns under the law in the sense that you need a CCW to carry one in public, can't open carry in THIS state, etc. You can't fire one in the city limits here, either, as a "firearm" is anything that uses a propellent as opposed to just air pressure or a string.
 
Just for arguments sake, in my home state a C&B revolver is not considered a firearm and may be carried concealed or openly. I just renewed my CCW license a month ago and this was brought up in the course. They are not considered firearms at all unless a crime has been committed, and then they "become" firearms. Also, to my surprise, there is no restriction on a person with a Felony, having completed all restitution, confinement, probation, and parole from having a C&B revolver.

You will find that the laws on blackpowder arms vary widely from Federal to State to State to County to Township. If you have any doubts, contact the local authority having jurisdiction.

t2e
 
There are 50 states and a bunch of territories and nearly every one has their own bizarre quirks to the firearms laws. In PA a percussion or flint pistol is not considered a firearm, BUT, still can't be possessed by those whose convictions or mental incapacity prohibits them from possessing firearms. No permit is needed to carry or transport a percussion or flint pistol, EXCEPT when it is carried concealed on the person. IE in a under a jacket, in a purse, back pack, etc.
 
I'm in MS 99.99% of the time, so I pay attention to our laws. I live in the county, so I can do what I want, when I want to on my property. I am polite, though; I hardly shoot at night, but it doesn't bother my neighbors, they're too far away to be bothered.

Most of the municipalities have it on the books it's illegal to shoot ANYTHING in city limits: air rifles, airsoft guns, paintball guns, or any sort of firearm, BP or not, unless you're shooting at a designated range or in self defense of yourself or property. You aren't allowed to have a loaded paintball gun or airgun in your vehicle (some hoodlums shot some pedestrians as a prank, so they passed the law.)There are no shooting ranges in Tupelo that I know of unless you get permission to use the police academy ranges. There aren't any paintball fields in the city limits due to high insurance rates and red tape.

About my comments about the conversion cylinders; yes, if the conversion cylinder is in the gun, it's a manufactured firearm which falls under BATF regulations. You have to pay the tax if you get rid of it, you can't "manufacture" too many and sell them or the BATF will bust you for tax evasion and manufacturing without a license. However, if you never transfer them to anyone or you never put it on papers, you can take the cylinder out of it and put the cap and ball cylinder back in, you can do what you want to with it, and the conversion cylinder becomes a part again. The gun doesn't have cooties, no one will ever know it fired centerfire cartridges unless you run around telling about it or showing it off. What I said about felons..if they know the law is looking for them, all they have to do is take the conversion cylinder out of the weapon and it's a BP pistol, which they're allowed to have in MS. Ditching the ammo is another problem, though. Felons aren't allowed to have ammo (MS state and Federal law).

The guns laws are ridiculous, they're highly dependent on people being completely brazen or stupid or both. Most of the time you have to work hard to get a lawman's attention to the fact that you're breaking the law and local law enforcement can't get the BATF to return their calls if they do notice a violation.
 
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