Do I need a dedicated Lee Crimping die?

[TargetTerror]

I'm just getting into reloading, and starting out with the Lee hand press (I know, it will take a while, but I'll get a better setup later).

I purchased the Lee 3 die sets, which I believe come with a sizer/decapper, enlarger die, and seating die. It looks like I can get a separate crimping die if desired. I will be loading 9mm luger, .38 special, and .357 magnum. Does the seating die crimp enough (or at all?), or would I benefit from the dedicated crimping die?

 

[Matt Dillon]

The revolver cartridge dies make a nice roll crimp if you set them correctly, but for any auto cartridges, I can highly recommend the Lee Factory crimp die.

 

[agd1953]

I use the lee factory crimp die for .223 Rem, best thing since slcied bread see group on post for three shot group

 

[HSMITH]

NO, you don't need it, and triple especially not with a single stage press. You can do everything you can do with the 4 die set but smash out mistakes with the 3 die set.

 

[TargetTerror]

Thanks guys. I seem to be getting slightly different answers, so I'll ask a few more questions. What specifically does the dedicated crimping die allow me to do that the regular seating die does not?

I'm new to reloading, so explain it to me like i'm a 2 year old

 

[Sunray]

Unless you're loading hot ammo, you won't need to crimp any of those. However, if you are, the seating die should put a roll crimp on the .38/.357. You'll need a taper crimp only(or none at all)for the 9mm though. No roll crimping for it. Headspaces on the case mouth. The seating die for the 9mm should not put a roll crimp, but I'm not familiar enough with Lee dies to say for sure. RCBS 9mm dies don't and since 9mm is 9mm I really can't see Lee putting a roll crimp in their die either. They'd get sued if they did.

 

[mc223]

Sounds like you need a decent press mounted right on the kitchen table.

 

[nelson133]

Some guns need the FCD and some don't. My 9mm and .40S&W guns work just fine with the standard crimp, but the Sig P220 and H&K USPC .45 require the use of the FCD to feed reliably.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I use both...The Lee FCD is used to crimp .38 Special and .30-30 Winchester. I use the crimp feature in the seating die to crimp .357 magnum and to just remove the bell (flare) on 9mm X 19 and .45 ACP. .30-06...No crimp at all. It was mentioned above that you didn't need to crimp .38 Special and .357 magnum unless you were loading hot rounds. Oh Yes you do...Always crimp these two and all revolver cartridges. Light powder charges or heavy powder charges. If you don't you will suffer from unburned powder especially with light powder charges. Not to mention the possibility of bullet creep. Revolver ammunition requires a heavy bullet pull to perform properly.

 

[HSMITH]

No gun NEEDS the FCD, no how no way. The FCD is a relatively new die, and BILLIONS of rounds fired that don't use it.

If you are using a hand press or a single stage you can seat and crimp in seperate stages using JUST the standard Lee crimp die. The only advantage the FCD will provide in this case is smashing your mistakes into a chamberable shape.

 

[RustyFN]

No gun NEEDS the FCD, no how no way. The FCD is a relatively new die, and BILLIONS of rounds fired that don't use it.

Does that mean that nobody should use one.

The only advantage the FCD will provide in this case is smashing your mistakes into a chamberable shape.

I'll have to disagree with this. I don't have mistakes I need to get rid of I just like to crimp in separate steps. In fact everybody I know has no problems without the FCD they prefer to crimp in separate steps also. HSMITH what do you hate about it so much that you don't think anybody should use it?
Rusty

 

[hagar]

Keep your hand press, better yet get another and you don't have to switch dies so often.

There is nothing that you can do with a bench mounted press that I cannot do with my hand press, and there is a lot I can do with my hand press that a bench press cannot do. I have not used my bench press in about 12 years, and load even my 340 Weatherby and 1000 yard 308 loads on mine. I can crank out 200 rounds of 223 in about an hour and a half, and for me that is good enough.

 

[1911user]

The controversy over the Lee FCD has nothing to do with seperate seat and crimp. In fact, many think it's a good idea, myself included. The issue is the carbide ring that "resizes" the loaded round during the crimp operation. At best, it makes the reloading process less smooth. At worst, it could squeeze a bullet enough to affect the case neck tension and make it more prone to setback during feeding.

Personally, I don't use them and don't see a need for them. If you resize the case correctly during sizing and use the proper size expander, it shouldn't need to be resized a second time. Others will strongly disagree with my not bowing down to the almighty FCD.

 

[Charshooter]

Here it is like a two-year-old.

When the seat die on a 357 comes down and pushes the bullet into the case the die fits over the top of the brass just a little and rolls the brass in.

In a 45 ACP or any pistol load, it headspaces on the end of the brass case mouth, if that was rolled in, it would not headspace. So in this case you can use a die to come down over the brass case mouth but not push it in and on its way down it presses in on the side of the top of the case forcing it to fit tighter on the bullet. This is done with a third crimp die for rifles and Lee has a great reputation for this. I a pistol, like a the 45 ACP, a forth die after the bullet is seated without the damaging roll accomplishes the same thing presses on at the top of the case to crimp but does not roll the case mouth in.

 

[HSMITH]

Rusty, what I 'hate' about the FCD is people using it to band-aid fix their reloading process. I 'hate' even more when people tell others to do the same. It is bad advice. With properly adjusted dies, good brass, and good technique the FCD sizer ring won't touch the brass. If that is the case it provides no advantage. If it helps the ammunition case gauge or feed more reliably something prior to it is wrong, plain and simple.

The original poster is using a single stage press, in this instance he can very easily back the die out, screw the seater in and seat to the desired OAL WITHOUT crimp. Then back the seater stem out and crimp seperately. He doesn't need another die to seat and crimp in seperate stages, he has everything he needs now.

 

[GaryL]

Rusty, what I 'hate' about the FCD is people using it to band-aid fix their reloading process. I 'hate' even more when people tell others to do the same. It is bad advice. With properly adjusted dies, good brass, and good technique the FCD sizer ring won't touch the brass. If that is the case it provides no advantage. If it helps the ammunition case gauge or feed more reliably something prior to it is wrong, plain and simple.

I've tried it both ways, and found I prefer the factory crimp die (at least in my turret press).

The original poster is using a single stage press, in this instance he can very easily back the die out, screw the seater in and seat to the desired OAL WITHOUT crimp. Then back the seater stem out and crimp seperately. He doesn't need another die to seat and crimp in seperate stages, he has everything he needs now.

Very good point.

 

[Stinger]

The FCD apologists amaze me. You read the Lee propaganda, you drink the Koolaid, and you spread the gospel. All without having a clue what the FCD does, nor what it is covering up.

I'm not speaking to the rifle crimper, nor those who like to crimp in an extra step. If you like to crimp in a separate step, knock yourself out. It may or may not be the greatest thing ever. If you like to crimp rifle rounds, knock yourself out. For most (not all) rifle cartridges, it is a total waste of time. On a single stage press, it adds another step. If you like extra steps, knock yourself out.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, if you need the FCD to make your ammunition work, you screwed up somewhere, plain and simple. You over expanded, you shaved lead/copper jacket, etc.

If you did everything correctly, why in the heck would you need to post size your ammunition? Answer, you wouldn't. It would already be properly sized. To have to post size a cartridge for a top-of-the-line pistol, ooh, I shudder to think.

The Carbide FCD in its intended form, a post sizing die, is a BAND-AID.

Regards,

Stinger

 

[[email protected]]

YES!

 

[The Bushmaster]

AND I'LL STILL USE THE LEE FCD ON .38 SPECIAL AND .30-30 WINCHESTER!!!

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

The only reason properly adjusted dies will create a round that needs to be post-sized is when the brass is not trimmed to uniform length. This is most often the case with folks wanting to crank out mountains of ammo (usually on a progressive press where the extra step is free), and don't want to take the time to trim the brass to uniform length.

I have no experience with the CFCD for taper crimped cartridges, but on roll crimped 45 colt, my Hornady seating die puts down a better roll crimp than my CFCD, and does it in the same step in which I seat the bullet. With a single stage press, the saved step is important. It is faster to trim cases (once every 5 firings or so) than to add an extra (and inferior) crimping step on every load of every case.

I also have used the FCD for rifle and bottleneck cartridges, and if you need to crimp those, the Lee FCD with a collet-type crimper, is the best available, bar none. But I really don't care for the CFCD.

Andy

 

[TargetTerror]

Thanks for all of the info.

It basically sounds like the extra crimping die becomes more desirable/necessary as one gets more advanced with reloading. For a newbie like myself that won't be doing any crazy loads too soon, I can probably stick with the standard 3 die set?

 

[Hook686]

I also use the Lee Hand Loader. I have the 3 die set, in .357 magnum and .44 magnum. I also have the Lee Speed Loader in each caliber. I have a 2nd Hand Loader, that does indeed help speed the process along .... it holds the Lee Factory Crimp Die. After I have a full tray of loaded rounds, I use the LFCD to add a tight crimp to my heavy loads, and a light crimp to my more mild loads.

I shoot a S&W 329PD AirLite and with .44 magnum loads, I have experienced 'Crimp jump', with reloads at the low end of the manual. If you have ever had a bullet jump crimp on you, you might be more inclined to favor the LFCD. I've never buckled a case with it, and never had a bullet jump crimp in the 329PD, when using it. It takes me 5 minutes to crimp 50. I think it worthwhile.

 

[RustyFN]

Rusty, what I 'hate' about the FCD is people using it to band-aid fix their reloading process. I 'hate' even more when people tell others to do the same. It is bad advice.

I agree totally, I don't think it should be used to fix screw-ups either.

With properly adjusted dies, good brass, and good technique the FCD sizer ring won't touch the brass.

I agree again. When I run mine into the FCD I feel zero resistance. I have it set to take the bell out that the powder/expander die put in and that is all.

The original poster is using a single stage press, in this instance he can very easily back the die out, screw the seater in and seat to the desired OAL WITHOUT crimp. Then back the seater stem out and crimp separately. He doesn't need another die to seat and crimp in separate stages, he has everything he needs now.

Yes he could get by fine without it. It probably wouldn't be any faster with all the adjusting than it would be to just change dies. I don't have any where near the experience as most of you and still have a lot to learn, thats why I am asking these questions. I really am not the FCD apologists that Stinger thinks I am.
HSMITH, thanks for the reply. I learned with the FCD because from all the reading I did on the forums it sounded like the best way to go. I also have a four hole turret so I didn't want an empty station. Does anybody make a separate crimp die that doesn't post size or can you take the carbide ring out of the Lee FCD and have it still crimp right? I heard if you have brass that isn't all the same length and you seat and crimp at the same time you can run into some minor problems with OAL and the brass shaving some of the copper off the bullet. Also I will change different styles of bullets a lot that require different OAL and it seemed easier to adjust the seater die and not have to mess with the crimp. Sorry this is getting long I will stop now. Thanks for your input.
Rusty

 

[HSMITH]

Rusty, if you switch bullets a lot get the Redding Competition seating die. It is micrometer adjustable, dead solid repeatable, and nothing seats bullets straighter.

9 out of 10 crimp dies I use are the standard Lee seat and crimp dies with the seater stem backed out. The Redding die is expensive, but worth every cent.

The stuff in this thread and all of the rest you have read about case length causing inconsistency in crimping is true, but WAY overblown in my opinion. I have loaded upwards of 75K rounds a year with standard dies and have had NO problems at all with the cases buckling or bulging due to case length, and I do not trim pistol brass unless for VERY specific purposes.

Many companies make crimp dies, and most of them are very good. Buying one from any of the mainstream reloading die makers is all you need to do.

The reason I tend to crow about the FCD is that LOTS of guys come to the same conclusion you did, and they start out with the FCD. I don't want to see people use it unless they are aware of what it is, what it is for, and how it works. I see one post from someone that understands for every 25 or more that recommend the FCD due to it 'fixing' some problem the poster had.

BTW, most of us with some handle time on a single stage load 'set-up rounds' to cheat the die setting procedure. Load one JUST right, and keep it. Then when you need to set up for that bullet again you can just put the round on the ram, raise it fully and screw the crimp die down firm, then screw the seater stem down firm, and you are done. Changing die settings using this method takes seconds instead of minutes, and is a lot faster than changing dies.

 

[RustyFN]

BTW, most of us with some handle time on a single stage load 'set-up rounds' to cheat the die setting procedure. Load one JUST right, and keep it. Then when you need to set up for that bullet again you can just put the round on the ram, raise it fully and screw the crimp die down firm, then screw the seater stem down firm, and you are done.

Thanks I do that also. I have made one in every style bullet without primer and powder and I use them to adjust my seater die every time I change. I will also check the first couple with my caliper to make sure everything is good. Thanks for the reply.
Rusty