Do I need a Lee FCD for hot .45 colt loads?

[wankerjake]

I am buying a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 colt, so the first thing I need is a set of dies (factory stuff is too expensive to shoot!). Most of my loads will be light so I know I don't need the crimp die for that, but I will want to load up some of the hot Ruger/Contender once in awhile. Do I need to crimp these loads with a crimp die? From the searches I have done here it seems that is the general consensus but I wanted to know why exactly. Most of what I read about the crimp is that it keeps the bullet from sliding in the shell when others are firing, but I'm pretty sure it is marketed as a way to get more velocity out of your reloads. At any rate it is cheaper to buy the crimp die with the set rather than separate. Figured I save a few bucks. Thanks for the help in advance guys.

Also, anybody have any favorite loads? Bullet types?-especially for the Ruger only loads.

Oh one more: I have noticed some bullets, marketed as .45colt bullets, have a diameter of .454" rather than .452"...Is it really just a matter of slugging the barrel or do .45 colts regularly have larger bore diameters? There seems to be reloading datafor both diameters.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

You DO need a good crimp for hot 45 Colt loads...how you choose to do it though is up to you.

The Lee FCD is an easy way to get it done though.

 

[Walkalong]

Get an RCBS or Redding crimp die. You take the time to get bullet diameters right to match your gun and then squish them?

 

[wankerjake]

OK, my next question is what does a RCBS or Redding crimp die do that a lee doesn't?

You take the time to get bullet diameters right to match your gun and then squish them?

I don't get it. ?

 

[Walkalong]

The Lee FCD die "post sizes" to ensure any mistakes are squished to fit. The crimp part on the Lee die is no better or worse than the others, except for the rougher finish. Just my 2 cents. Over and out.

 

[243winxb]

Do I need to crimp these loads with a crimp die?

Yes, a roll crimp. To keep the remaining bullets in the cylinder from moving forward under recoil.

I have noticed some bullets, marketed as .45colt bullets, have a diameter of .454" rather than .452"..

Your Ruger will take a .452 lead or .4515" or .452" jacketed bullet. The .454" is for early Colt single actions. Have a look at the Convertible Blackhawk with the extra 45acp cylinder for a few $ more.

 

[SASS#23149]

Are you shooting cast bullets,or jacketed........or both ?
with nearly all die sets,the seater die also performs a crimp operation.Some roll crimp for lead bullets,some taper crimp for jacketed bullets.
I don't like my FCD because it really makes the press jump,it's such a tight fit,and packs the powder down in the hopper.IN fact it'll knoce the top off of the hopper.
I think it's unecessary to buy one,but I do like to seat and crimp in 2 operations..easier to adjust the dies by far.I just use and extra 'regular' die in slot four of the Dillon.
btw,you WILL want to crimp even light target loads so as not to tie the gun up.If you don't,take a range rod with you,you'll need it.

 

[farmrboy]

The roll crimp in the seating die is just fine for a rimmed case like the 45 colt. The case headspaces on the rim. A rimmless case like the 9mm or 45acp headspaces on the mouth and will fit better in the chamber with a taper crimp. The mouth is shaped so that it will properly contact the front of the chamber and negate any potential headspace problems caused by a roll crimp.

 

[FredT]

I vote for Farmrboy's answer for being right on the money.

 

[wankerjake]

So does the FCD do a roll crimp or a taper crimp? I think I am ok on the lead bullets, I'm going to load them like I load .38 spl. Just a light crimp from the FCD. What I want to know is what kind of crimp do I need on hot Ruger only jacketed rounds? It looks like I can use the FCD, but what is the main purpose of this? Why is the crimp from the bullet seating die not good enough for these loads? And, does this crimp improve velocity significantly?

 

[FredT]

You do not NEED a FCD for your .38spls. Your seating/crimp die will put all of the crimp you will need for any of your spl loads. Look at a factory round and see how much roll crimp they use. Just duplicate it an you will be good to go.

 

[wankerjake]

You do not NEED a FCD for your .38spls

I know this, but I have the die and I have a 4 hole press so it isn't any more work, if anything easier. It is a light crimp so I figure it doesn't hurt anything...right?

 

[wankerjake]

You do not NEED a FCD for your .38spls

Yeah I know but I have a 4 hole turret press and a crimp die so I might as well, I'm not hurting anything...right? THey seem to be accurate and they fit in the cylinders well.

 

[FredT]

If you already have it, try it. See how it works.

 

[wankerjake]

Well I don't have it yet, but I guess I'll get it.

 

[jcwit]

Do you need a FCD? Try this.
Mic a sized bullet.
Load it in a cartridge.
Use the FCD.
Pull the bullet from the shell casing without deforming the bullet.
Mic. the bullet again.

Did it change size?

Now, do you need a FCD?

This applies to handgun rounds.

 

[MCMXI]

Also, anybody have any favorite loads? Bullet types?-especially for the Ruger only loads.

First off, I roll crimp all my .45 Colt loads with a Lee roll crimp die as a final step ... even the Trail Boss loads. As for my favorite loads, I'm shooting 250 grain OT Laser-Cast RNFP bullets out of a Ruger Redhawk and Marlin 1894 (both in .45 Colt). I'm using 22.0gr** of H110 powder in Starline cases and I just bought 3000 CCI large pistol magnum primers this morning since I was getting erratic velocity results out of the Ruger using Winchester WLP primers. The magnum primers were recommended by some members here so hopefully they'll work better. The loads are very consistent out of the Marlin and are moving at about 1450 fps. I plan on upping the load to 23.0gr for the next session with the Redhawk to get closer to the 1000 fps that I'm looking for. I recently bought 500 Hornady cases based on the good reviews that I've read about them. I also have 300 grain OT Laser-Cast RNFP bullets but haven't shot them yet.

I should add that I'm not getting any leading in the Ruger or the Marlin with the load listed above. I feel that the load is an excellent, heavy duty choice with impressive stopping power that gives good accuracy out of a the 4" Ruger and the 20" Marlin. It makes the '94 and Redhawk a lot more fun to shoot and the '94 feels like a "real" rifle when I pull the trigger.

** CAUTION: This load is for Ruger Blackhawk/Redhawk and T/C only. It is NOT safe in original Colt SAA revolvers or any SAA clones.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

I crimp while seating with a Hornady seating die. Works fine. My Lee FCD does not do as good a job as the Hornady seater does.

Andy

 

[Dean Williams]

I use the seating die in my Lee carbide set to crimp my Ruger 45 Colt loads. I've been loading for it with these dies since Lee came out with their carbides. Before that I used my steel Reddings. I've loaded plinkers and barn burners using either set.
You don't need an FCD to put a proper crimp in your 45 Colt cartridges, whether they're heavy loads or not. Just use your seating die. It has a roll crimp shoulder built into it, and that's what it's there for... crimping.

 

[Hairballusmaximus]

I use the carbide 3 die set from RCBS and does an awsome job. I ONLY use the FCD for lead being loaded for an auto and requires a taper crimp, this is because the taper crimp will shave lead off bullet if you crimp and seat at the same time. The bullet should have a crimp cannelure for the roll crimp which eliminates this issue.

Hairball

 

[1858rem]

1858-

I plan on upping the load to 23.0gr for the next session with the Redhawk to get closer to the 1000 fps that I'm looking for.

have you tried universal yet? it worked well in my gun to the bitter end and avg'd 930 fps with about a third the charge you are using, of course mine had a 8" bbl too, if you decide to look for an economic load, though when i get a ruger i will be looking at getting some accurate #5 and #9 for top end performance

'm shooting 250 grain OT Laser-Cast RNFP bullets out of a Ruger Redhawk and Marlin 1894 (both in .45 Colt). I'm using 22.0gr** of H110 powder

btw where did you find this load, i may look at some h110 since that looks really good for the jacketed loads!

** CAUTION: This load is for Ruger Blackhawk/Redhawk and T/C only. It is NOT safe in original Colt SAA revolvers or any SAA clones.

 

[MCMXI]

have you tried universal yet? it worked well in my gun to the bitter end and avg'd 930 fps with about a third the charge you are using

1858rem, no I haven't. I did try W231 but it was too fast a powder and it caused severe leading with hotter loads.

btw where did you find this load, i may look at some h110 since that looks really good for the jacketed loads!

DISCLAIMER: The loads discussed here are intended for use in Ruger Redhawk/Blackhawk or T/C firearms.

Let me start by saying that the Lyman 49th Edition is absolutely useless for .45 Colt loads if you're interested in 250 grain lead bullets moving in excess of 1200 fps ... there aren't any. 22.0gr of H110 chronographed at 1450 fps out of a 20" barrel without any leading. The Marlin 1894 action in .45 Colt is the same as the action in .44 Magnum (36,000 CUP SAAMI) so it can handle loads that some refer to as +P which max out at around 30,000 CUP.



First source:
The Speer #11 manual lists the following load for a Ruger Blackhawk/Redhawk/Contender with 7-1/2" barrel and a 250gr lead SWC.

Starting load
18.0gr H110 1125 fps - less than 25,000 CUP

Max load
20.0gr H110 1245 fps - less than 25,000 CUP

They warn that lead bullets moving at over 1000 fps may lead the barrel.



Second source:

John Linebaugh's web site

One of his favorite loads is ...

24.0gr H110 with a 260gr cast bullet at 1280 fps

Another of his test loads from a 7" barrel ...

27.0gr H110 with a 260gr cast bullet at 1459 fps - 30,600 CUP

When talking about his favorite .45 Colt loads he specifically states "All are safe in Rugers and have been recommended to hundreds of shooters, All report good results and accuracy.



Third source:

www.hodgdon.com

They list the following load data for Ruger, Freedom Arms & T/C only using a 250 GR. HDY XTP bullet (no mention of barrel length).

Starting load
25.7gr H110 1398 fps - 27,000 CUP

Maximum load
26.5gr H110 1455 fps - 29,800 CUP

The maximum pressure listed for the .45 Colt (Ruger, FA and T/C only) is 30,000 CUP.



Fourth source:

www.buffalobore.com

Item 3E - 255 gr.
S&W Mt. Gun (4 inch) 949 fps
Colt SAA 2nd generation (4 3/4 inch) 983 fps
Colt NF SAA 2nd generation (5.5 inch) 984 fps
Custom Ruger Bisley (5.5 inch Pac-Nor bbl) 1047 fps
Colt NF SAA 3rd generation ( 7.5 inch) 1053 fps

Item 3F - 200 gr.
S&W Mt. Gun (4 inch) 1015 fps
Colt SAA 2nd generation (4 3/4 inch) 1047 fps
Colt NF SAA 2nd generation (5.5 inch) 1038 fps
Custom Ruger Bisley (5.5 inch Pac-Nor bbl) 1136 fps
Colt NF SAA 3rd generation ( 7.5 inch) 1112 fps

Both of these 45 colt loads are designed to be a heavy loading, yet be within standard (SAAMI) pressure. As such, both of these 45 colt loads are safe and recommended to be used IN ANY post-war 45 colt that is in normal working condition. ANY post-war means ANY post-war, so please take my word for it without phoning or emailing me "just to make sure". I love hearing from and appreciate customers, I really do, but there is no sense using up your or my time answering questions that have already been answered.

These loads are indeed heavy 45 colt loadings. You can fire them in any post-war firearm that is in normal working condition chambered for 45 colt without reservation. These loads will turn your Colt SAA or clone into a powerful carry gun.


So based on these sources, I'm confident of the following:

The Ruger Redhawk and Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt can safely handle up to 30,000 CUP loads. 22.0gr to 24.0gr of H110 with a 250gr lead bullet will generate pressures between 25,000 CUP and 30,000 CUP when fired from the the RH or Marlin.