Do I want to start reloading?

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When I mentioned the hand loader, I was referring to the nutcracker one. Lee Loaders look good, but they won't load .40 S&W, or do case sizing for .223 for semi-auto. I am looking at starting with .40 S&W, .45ACP, and .30-06. Later, add in .30/30 Win and .223. This will complete my caliber footprint (for now). All of the advice is telling me that it will be enjoyable, if I go slow and enjoy the learning process and studying manuals (which I am sure that I will). Still interested in any tips regarding starting with the Lee Classic Press (like the mention on carbide dies and the manuals), and I will start saving my money and brass.
 
In many ways, handloading your own ammo is like a religion. Those who belong to religion "A" try to convince you to become a part of their organization, those belonging to religion "B" do the same with their organization. The sacrament intended to welcome the new member is based entirely on which brand of reloading press and accessories you purchase. That decision is intended to demonstrate the relative economic savvy of the adherents with both camps certain that theirs is the superior theology.

A subgroup, "The Reformers" have but one covenant, the time tested secular creed "you get what you pay for". That school of thought tries to some extent to put his/her faith system into some sort of perspective based on personal disposable income, time resources and the degree of priority the operation that the tools purpose requires.

The interesting aspect of this religious system is that it operates wholly contained within a capitalistic monetary economy but neither party directly benefits or suffers from the success or failure of their church.
 
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AnselHazen said:
At your age who's to say the future won't be something that will let you shoot more? Those kids aren't going to stay under 8yrs old eh? I see some excuses to get to the range more coming your way.

Truth right there. I used to bring my kids.

I don't get out much, but I still manage to work up loads. And when the shortages hit, I was still reloading and shooting as cheaply as ever.
 
Still interested in any tips regarding starting with the Lee Classic Press (like the mention on carbide dies and the manuals), and I will start saving my money and brass.


Again, being in a similar situation as you, let me cast a BIG vote for the Lee classic turret. My volume was low enough that a true progressive wasn't even on my radar, I like to call the Lee turret a semi-progressive. Once you dial in say your .40 load you can just spit out rounds with it. Using a hand loader or single stage will get old pretty quick as your volume needs increase, or at least it would to me. Basically, with the Lee turret you have the option of speed and volume. Loading 9mm I can turn out a few hundred rounds an hour. But most of my loading lately has been .223 and for that I take out the auto indexing rod and use it like a single stage press, just without all the swapping out of dies for each step because they're all set up and ready to go. When you need to move to the nest step, just easily rotate the turret by hand and you're off to the next step.

Anyway, if you haven't already take a good look at the Lee turret and what it can do for you compared to single stage presses.




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Continuing my sermon on the religion of handloading.

There are basically two (2) kinds of presses used by the consumer level handloader. The first is the single stage press. This press can perform one operation on one round in the making at a time. In other words, it can only accommodate one piece of brass at a time. It can be identified by it's venerable "shell holder" which can hold one piece of brass.

The second kind of press is a progressive press, it can perform multiple operations at a time, but only one operation at a time for each individual prospective round. It achieves it progressive status by processing multiple prospective rounds at the same time, each prospective round is at a different "stage" at any given time in the build process. A progressive press is identified by it's iconic "shell plate" which can hold two or more pieces of brass at a time. Most shell plates can hold 5 to 7 (or more) pieces of brass.

The design of the single stage press can be modified by mechanical variations that allow it produce ammo faster than a standard single stage press. A turret head that can mount multiple dies and/or powder dispensers and which are either manual or self indexing may speed up the single stages operation time by reducing the time the operator needs to change dies and handle brass.

Another variation allows the powder measure to perform it's function while installed on the press. And yet another variation supplies and installs the new primer on press. A single stage press with all of the above mentioned mechanical variations installed and functioning may give the handloader a faster reloading rate as measured in time required per unit. How much faster is subject to heated debate. Individual perspective and needs vs. wants are many times lost in that debate. Not helpful to the debate are individuals whose claims which are sometimes exaggerated or unrealistic are used to sway the prospective new member of the organization to make a profession of faith.

Those interested in exploring the spiritual benefits of handloading might consider the reformers mantra of you get what you pay for when considering membership in the movement. Virtually all of the handloading sects agree on one thing, they all are capable of producing quality ammo. The reformers, with their network of similar but not exactly monolithic faith practices stress in their bedrock statement of faith that speed and tooling durability are directly related to tooling costs.
 
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. How much faster is subject to heated debate. Individual perspective and needs vs. wants are many times lost in that debate. Not helpful to the debate are individuals whose claims which are sometimes exaggerated or unrealistic are used to sway the prospective new member of the organization to make a profession of faith.


How is it not helpful?! When I was in this persons shoes I found it extremely helpful to hear what different people were doing with their presses and what kind of production rate they were achieving ... after all that's one of the main considerations in determining which press is best for you. It's exactly that information that helped me settle on the Lee turret. Of course people's production rate claims are all subjective and limited to that individuals process and work flow but I absolutely feel it's helpful information for people looking to get into the hobby.

I'm not trying to persuade this guy from joining any of your religions, I'm simply trying to give him my personal experiences in hopes that it is in some way helpful to him as he tries to decide which setup will be best for him both today and in the future!



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The questions is: "Do I want to start handloading?"

Most (or some) of the answers are something like: "my son, buy a certain brand X. Why? Because that is what I did."

A lot of the answers are to a different question.

I'm not trying to persuade this guy from joining any of your religions,
Oh but you are. Read your own testimonial with an open mind. You are certainly advocating for a particular path, which is something I do not believe I have done.

My answer to the OP question is If you want a new hobby and enjoy shooting your firearms, handloading is worth exploring. Figure out how much time and money you wish to spend and remember, when it comes time to buy tools, you get what you pay for.
 
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Yes , "you get what you pay for",
I paid for a RCBS jr3 years ago and it's still my main squeeze :evil: :p :evil:.
 
I've been reloading since age 16 , mostly to develop accuracy in Varmint/ Deer rifles.
Several years ago I started loading pistol stuff( .38 Special} and it keeps my shooting modes intact.
I use an ancient Hollywood press for most of my stuff and I own , probably, 20 sets of rifle, pistol dies.
Loading is fun. keep careful AND keep at it !
 
Oh but you are. Read your own testimonial with an open mind. You are certainly advocating for a particular path, which is something I do not believe I have done.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Of course I gave a good review of what works for me and why, why wouldn't I? I couldn't care less if he bought a Lee turret, a LNL, an RCBS, or a big blue Dillon. Why would I care what someone else chooses to be best for him or her? I was simply trying to provide him another option to consider had he not yet considered it.

And you never answered my question of how providing that information is not helpful? Again, that kind of information is exactly what helped guide me to my ultimate decision. I see no logical reason why anyone would think that's not helpful. You seem a little too sensitive to the subject matter, if someone asks about getting into reloading it's a pretty reasonable expectation people are going to share how they themselves got into it and why.
 
Will I enjoy reloading if I only get to shoot 6 days a year?
I wouldn't.
I have done some real quick load workups. Even when they work right off the bat, I wouldn't want to wait a month or two to confirm them.
Other times, a load just doesn't work right. If I was to shoot one day, load something else two days later, then wait two months to shoot it, I probably wouldn't remember why I thought it was a good idea in the first place.
If you're shooting something unusual, that could change things. But if you're shooting 9mm and 223, for instance, I'd just concentrate on setting up my guns like I like, and buy ammo that the guns like.
 
And you never answered my question of how providing that information is not helpful? Again, that kind of information is exactly what helped guide me to my ultimate decision. I see no logical reason why anyone would think that's not helpful. You seem a little too sensitive to the subject matter, if someone asks about getting into reloading it's a pretty reasonable expectation people are going to share how they themselves got into it and why.

What I said was:
"A single stage press with all of the above mentioned mechanical variations (ie: a turret press with auto indexing and/or on-press priming) installed and functioning may give the handloader a faster reloading rate as measured in time required per unit. How much faster is subject to heated debate. Individual perspective and needs vs. wants are many times lost in that debate. Not helpful to the debate are individuals whose claims which are sometimes exaggerated or unrealistic are used to sway the prospective new member of the organization to make a profession of faith."

In other words, there are those who make claims about hourly rates based on inaccurate information or wishful thinking to make their case. This inaccurate information and/or wishful thinking tactic is what I mean is not useful to the debate on actual production times.

You are making the case that the devotees of one or the other religion don't really read what is being asked or said and respond accordingly. Sorry if that offends.
 
Still interested in any tips regarding starting with the Lee Classic Press (like the mention on carbide dies and the manuals), and I will start saving my money and brass.

Myself, and many others here on THR have that press. Others may have a different favorite but at about $112 brand new in a box I don't think anyone can tell you truthfully it would be a poor decision to start with that press.
 
Even if you only get to shoot 6 times a year, reloading as a hobby would give you a way to further enjoy your hobby without going to the range. I work way to many hours and have been working towards reloading for a number of years, staying with Lee equipment as you're planning the cost is very reasonable. For me, the studying and planning is a big and very enjoyable part of the process.

The Lee Classic Cast single stage press sounds like an excellent way to start, especially as you sound like you're intently interested in the process of reloading, not the speed and output. If it were me I would get one in the breech lock configuration with a set of Lee's excellent carbide dies for a pistol caliber of your choice and install Lee's lock ring eliminators on them. that will give you a nice KISS set up to start and not tie up a whole lot of resources. Loading a straightwall cartridge first should be your easiest introduction, start there and grow as your interest and needs dictate.
 
The Lee Challenger Breech Lock kits seem like a really good deal. If I am more interested in saving money, and spending time learning the process, vs. cranking out as many rounds per hour as possible, would this be a good starter kit? What would I "NEED" on top of this kit, besides dies and components, just to make range fodder? I would figure on a digital scale at least, for precision rifle loads, and already have a set of calipers.
 
The Lee Challenger Breech Lock kits seem like a really good deal. If I am more interested in saving money, and spending time learning the process, vs. cranking out as many rounds per hour as possible, would this be a good starter kit? What would I "NEED" on top of this kit, besides dies and components, just to make range fodder? I would figure on a digital scale at least, for precision rifle loads, and already have a set of calipers.

A way of cleaning the brass (vibrating bowl w/media, sonic cleaner, etc.), and a kinetic bullet puller. :)

Oh, did I mention, manuals! :D
 
kcofohio I can't believe your the first person to mention these in this thread, I guess all of us who have been handloading for eons take them as a given when asked what's needed to start handloading

Yup get a couple or more,,,,:evil:
If the Challenger Breech Lock kit still comes with the scale ( mine did but I gave the scale away and got an RCBS 5-0-5 ) I would get a powder trickler also.

I'm not knocking the Lee scale one bit because I found it surprisingly easy to operate and accurate to boot .
I just prefer Green to red that's all..

If we all looked alike and liked the same stuff it would be a totally boring place to exist...:evil:
 
With my situation, reloading has turned into an addiction. My forest shooting hole is 1 mile away and I can shoot pretty much anytime I want.

I've gone from shooting 50 pistol rounds/week, to 100 rounds/week.....9mm and 40 cal.

I burn through components at an amazing speed and constantly have to buy to keep a supply.

Reloading is fun and rewarding, once you start, you'll be hooked.

I've got a $65 Lee Turret press that has probably seen 65,000 rounds over the last 10 years and its still trucking right along.
 
How is it not helpful?!
They are unhelpful-even misleading-when they are not comparable.

I measure my round count from freshly fired and cleaned of grit cases. The clock stops with boxed, labelled, ready for the range ammunition. Some posters size and deprime (and even reprime) separately and do not include the time consumed in that operation as part of their production figures. This results in a higher apparent production rate.

Does the press operator include bathroom breaks, leg-stretching breaks, time spent refilling primer feeder, case feeder, powder hopper, verifying powder drops and all the other things that interrupt the production? (Call this the difference between cyclic rate and sustained rate)
When I was in this persons shoes I found it extremely helpful to hear what different people were doing with their presses and what kind of production rate they were achieving ... after all that's one of the main considerations in determining which press is best for you. It's exactly that information that helped me settle on the Lee turret. Of course people's production rate claims are all subjective and limited to that individuals process and work flow but I absolutely feel it's helpful information for people looking to get into the hobby.

Quite right.

Lost Sheep
 
Names of Lee Presses

Lee could certainly use a better naming convention.

Lee Loader (or Load-All) - the (in)famous Whack-a-mole kit that is powered by a mallet. It is OK, even good and can produce 50 rounds an hour in the hands of a practiced use. But for any kind 0of flexibility, you need to add a scale and a way to mete powder (dippers or at least a few cases soldered to a wire handle to and trimmed to measure.

Lee Hand Press. Aluminum, lightweight and taking up little space, and portable. Adequate for pistol rounds and smaller rifle rounds, it has low leverage. Priming on-press requires a priming die.

Lee Reloader - a bench-mount "C" press made of aluminum. Adequate for pistol rounds and smaller rifle rounds Adequate for pistol rounds and smaller rifle rounds, it has low leverage. Priming on-press requires a priming die.

Lee Challenger - Aluminum bench-mount "O" press. Compound leverage and available with quick-change bushings (some like them, some find them a worthless "frill")

Lee Classic Cast - Cast iron bench-mount press "O" press. Great leverage. Available with quick-change bushings too. Highly advanced design.

Lee Classic Turret - Same bottom end as the Classic Cast (great leverage).

Lee Deluxe Turret - not as advanced as the Classic Turret, as strong in the base or as strong in the leverage.

Then there are Lee's progressives. I will not describe then here.

Lost Sheep
 
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Batch vs Continuous processing

Definition: Batch and Continuous modes

Batch processing is where you take a batch of empty cases (whether your batch size is 20, 50 or 1,000-which you might process over several days) and put all the cases through the loading steps/operations one step at a time, completing the entire batch before any case moves onto the next step.

Continuous processing is where you put each case through all the loading steps/operations, completing all the steps before moving onto the next case.

Single stage presses pretty much can only do batch processing because each die has to be installed on the press.

The Lee Loader (Load-all) can do either because each die only has to be picked up and used.

Progressive presses have continuous processing as their native method but can do batch if you want, but you have to really want.

Turret presses can do batch processing or continuous processing with equal ease, though auto-indexing gives continuous processing a clear advantage over manually indexed turrets. Turret presses can do batch or continuous processing with about equal ease

On a press, continuous processing saves a lot of time because it eliminates a lot of handling the cases (at least three insertion-removal cycles).

Batch processing allows for a bit more ease in maintaining quality control, particularly inspection steps.

Because crafting highly precise rounds for maximum accuracy involves handling the cases outside of the press between each step, that handling takes just about the same amount of time whether you are batch or continuous, so much of the speed difference disappears. Because batch inspection is (often) more easily done, I prefer batch processing for the most critical quality-controlled ammunition.

Single stage presses are pretty much confined to batch processing by their nature.

Lost Sheep
 
Well, my wonderful wife has been checking on this. Turns out, Amazon had the Lee Challenger Breech Lock kit, $116, free Prime shipping, and $50 off your purchase when you sign up for a no-strings-attached, cancel-anytime Amazon credit card. Happy birthday to me. And so it begins. I thank each of you for the advice, and will be checking this forum frequently for tips.
 
Thanks for asking our advice. Welcome to reloading

Okay, I am getting ready to turn 35, and want to start a new hobby. ... The turret presses just seem to be set up for production, whereas I am wanting to spend more time with the process.
Congratulations. Reloading for accuracy or cost-savings is viable. Loading for .223, 9mm, .40S&W and 45 ACP, it is pretty hard to make big savings, but most other rifle rounds and revolver rounds, the savings are significant. My .357 Mag costs me about 1/3 of factory ammo.

Turret press advocates do tout their speed and convenience, but most turret presses are nearly equally competitive with single stage presses for reliability and accuracy.

Mostly because most single stage presses are cast in one piece and there is zero play between parts. All presses assembled from parts necessarily have some dimensional tolerance. In a single stage press, if alignment (between the ram and the die threads) is correct when the press was made, it will not change without REALLY extreme circumstances. It means one less variable to consider.

Now, the Forster is an exception. I have never used one, but am told the self-centering feature of the shell holder and the symmetrical design of the press guarantees perfect alignment. And I believe it.
I have also considered a hand press, but am worried about dumping powder, inconsistent crimps, etc.
I never considered a hand press. I mounted my bench-mount press on a board with carriage bolts and wing-nuts and wedged the board into the drawer of an end table.

Dumping powder with a hand press will not be a concern. You don't do that on a hand-held. You put your cases in a loading block and charge them all as a batch (en bloc, if you will). Then start the bullet in the case mouth before putting the assemblage into the press. No spill. Crimp is applied by your muscles and you can regulate (with practice) the force. Though, I admit I find a bench-mounted press a little easier to maintain consistency. In addition to the force in my hands, the position of the handle gives me visual feedback as well.

...so I am lucky if I can manage 1 range trip a month, though I thoroughly enjoy everything firearm-related (yes, even cleaning them). Am I going to get frustrated when working loads up, because it will be so long between trips,
If patience is a problem, (between loading a set of rounds to be tested and getting to the range), just make up the rounds closer to the date of the range trip. If patience is a problem otherwise, loading may not be a good choice for you :). You know yourself best.

Know this: As you get engaged in reloading you will find the study of internal ballistics (what happens between ignition of the primer and the bullet's exit of the muzzle) FASCINATING.
So, is this something I want to get started in, or will it be a nightmare?

TL;DR version: Will I enjoy reloading if I only get to shoot 6 days a year?
Aaah. That is the question. Why reload?

The fish I catch might cost more than the fish I buy;
The veggies I grow might cost more than the those I buy;
The ammunition I shoot might even cost more than retail;
Why do I fish, garden and handload?
If you have to ask why, you probably won't understand; these activities enrich my life.

Actually, to tell the truth, I do calculate the cost of my ammunition, fish and zuccini. I even include the dollar value of my time.

Here is an essay I wrote enumerating some of the reasons:

Why reload?

Let me count the ways:

Economy: Depending on what cartridges you are reloading (and whether or not you want to count your time and the up-front equipment costs) you can save anywhere from just a little to 80% or more of your ammo costs. (9mm is very close to no savings. 500 S&W, my friend's ammo costs are $0.75 per round, factory loaded ammo is $3.00 each for comparable ammo. More exotic calibers (especially rifle calibers) can save even more. Some rounds are not even available on a regular basis at any price.

Quality: Ammo you craft yourself can be tuned to your firearms particular characteristics. Handloaders for rifles quite often find some individual guns have quite striking differences in group size when shooting tuned ammunition.

Knowledge: As you study reloading, you will, perforce, also study internal ballistics. The study of internal ballistics leads into the study of how your firearms work. That cannot be a bad thing.

Customization: Ammo you load yourself can be tuned to your particular needs. My friend with the 500 S&W loads full power loads and "powder puff" loads that clock 350 grain slugs a little under 800 feet per second. I know that's more than a G.I. 45 ACP's power and momentum, but they shoot like 22 rimfire in that big, heavy gun. Great for fun, familiarization, training and letting the curious bystander go for a "test drive" with a super-light load, a medium load, a heavy load and, if they are still game one of the big boomers. This tends to avoid the "rear sight in the forehead" mark.

Satisfaction: Punching small bunches of small, medium or large holes in paper or bringing down a game or food animal with ammunition you crafted yourself has a good deal of satisfaction. Same reason I prefer to make my own biscuits instead of store-bought.

Smug satisfaction: When the ammo shelves are bare during a market or political scare, loaders are demonstrably less affected by the shortages. A couple of pounds of powder, a thousand primers and bullets (or few pounds of lead) and a hundred cartridge cases wouldn't fill a small book carton, but lets the loader know he can shoot while price-gougers take advantage of non-loaders.

Self-satisfaction: The repetitive, calm, attentive concentration of the reloading activities is often found to be so much fun as to bring to the shooter's mind the question, "Do I reload so I can shoot shoot or do I shoot so I can reload?". Some find loading to be as satisfying a hobby as shooting or fly-tying or many other hobbies.

The more fanatical among us combine a couple of the features I have mentioned and, instead of shooting for bullseye accuracy at the range, reload in a search for the "magic load" that achieves perfection in a given rifle. Then, they move on to the next target, which is another rifle and another tuned load. But you do have to be at least a little fanatical to even get it. It is the hunt they seek, for they enjoy the quest more than the goal.

Lost Sheep
 
Well, my wonderful wife has been checking on this. Turns out, Amazon had the Lee Challenger Breech Lock kit, $116, free Prime shipping, and $50 off your purchase when you sign up for a no-strings-attached, cancel-anytime Amazon credit card. Happy birthday to me. And so it begins. I thank each of you for the advice, and will be checking this forum frequently for tips.
Congratulations! For the kit and the wonderful wife. :)

And the good news! 24/7 service here! :D
 
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