Do lever action rifles jam if held at an angle or upside down?

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boatmanschneider

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I read a review of an 1873 replica recently and they said it was the only lever that cycled upside down and at all angles. Like if you were lying on your back or in the prone. Is this true?

I have been considering a .357 lever to go along with my Blackhawk but I don't want a rifle that is not reliable at odd angles.
 
There are several different designs for lever guns. I never gave it much thought, but I can try it on my Marlin 1894C.

Many rifles aren't reliable at odd angles. Controled Round Feed bolt guns are. My mountain rifle is a Model 70. My lever guns are great toys.
 
The 1873 action has a carrier or "elevator" that holds the round exactly parallel to the barrel at all points, and also pretty much "encases" the round except for a narrow slot along the top. It is unusual among lever actions for this; it is the same mechanism that came down from the Henry Rifle and from the earlier Volcanic. This type of elevator will work upside down as it always hold the round parallel. Yes, although shooting upside down might be an unusual situation, the action will work that way.
Most other actions (atleast on those lever guns with tubular mags) will depend upon a carrier that flips up like a lever and hold the round at an angle. These types may or may not work, but there is atleast some potential for the nose of the bullet to be affected by gravity and jamming up the bolt upon closing if used upside down.
This unfortunatly applies to Winchester's better lever guns -- those designed by John Moses Browning.
I guess we all should be happy that shooting guns upside down is rare! I really can see no circumstance I would eve do it ..... but possibly my imagination is lacking.
 
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I don't want a gun that will not work when I am on my back on in defensive position. As I think about it, I don't want a gun that has known jamming issues.


I found this in the archives.

"Both the Marlin and the Winchester (Rossi, Puma) 1894 uses a loading lifter for the cartridge. The Puma is actually just a copy of the Winchester 1892. The nose of the cartridge relies on gravity to keep it in place. On the Winchester 1892s and 1894s, the bullet can tip completely out of the top of the action, and not feed at all. On the Marlin 1894, the closed top of the receiver will prevent this, but the nose could be pushed into the area above the chamber, effectively stopping feeding. The only lever action rifles virtually jam-free upside down will be the Henry (1860), Winchester 1866, Winchester 1873, and Winchester 1876 rifles. These use a carrier block to raise the cartridge to chamber level and the bolt merely pushes it directly into the chamber. The opening in the top of the carrier is not large enough to let the cartridge pass through. However, these are weaker actions, and are not made in very powerful calibers, such as .44 Magnum.
 
Yes, the 1873 "loosely captures" the round within the elevator. The other lever guns put the cartridge on top of the elevator and can fallout. If jiggled much while levering other lever guns will jam. At the bottom of the schematic part #7 is the elevator which feeds the round from the magazine to the chamber. The round rides inside the elevator. (Tap the picture twice)
 

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I am not interested in shooting upside down. Cycling the action upside down or at odd angles is what I am talking about.

Does any one make a good 1873,76 or 1866 model?
 
Uberti makes repros of the guns you mention. So far as I know they are the only company that does, but Uberti is known for making good guns.
They are distributed by Taylors, Dixie Gun Works, Navy Arms, and others.

EDIT
Oooops. Red Cent beat me to it.
 
Are Chaparrals made by Uberti?

If so, CDNN has some Chaparral 1873s for bargain prices right now.

Uberti makes very nice guns. They generally aren't cheap, but you get something for your money. Many of them are MUCH too pretty for truck guns, IMO.:)
 
Chaparral says they manufacture. As with most compaanies, Chaparral heralded the coming of the 1886. It came out a little rough. In all my seven or so years in cowboy, I never knew anybody who owned a Chaparral. Maybe I did and did not know it.
 
It's funny how folks who have never owned a levergun post threads like this bringing up these "known jamming issues" while those of us who have grown up with them had no idea most of these issues even existed. I probably own at least one of just about every popular levergun action available (except the `86) and I don't even think it's worth getting out of my chair to see if any of them cycle upside down.

All the 1860, 1866, 1873 and 1876 replicas are "good". All are Italian replicas and all are about twice what a comparable Marlin or Winchester cost but the fit and finish is much better. They also run at least one or two pounds heavier. I consider them to be a little classier and wish I had more of them. A .44Spl `66 or .50-95 `76 are high on the list.
 
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I don't even think it's worth getting out of my chair to see if any of them cycle upside down.
Click to expand...
Boy, ain't that the truth!

If it were a problem worth contemplating, somebody, but most likely John Browning, would have fixed it 120 years ago!

And so would Remington on the Model 700 bolt-action sniper rifles.
And so would all the other push-feed bolt-action rifle makers all over the world.

Just try loading one of them upside down!
They will spit rounds out on the ground faster then you can run the bolt back & forth.

In actual fact, very few rifles are designed to work reliably upside down.
It hasn't been much of a design consideration since the controlled round feed Model 98 Mauser & 03 Springfield were shooting at each other across no mans land in WWI.

rc
 
FWIW (essentially zero value), the Winchester 1895 appears to cycle reliably upside down. (Using 150gr FMJBT's in .30-06)

However, if you don't run the lever "smartly", the head end of the cartridge falls off the bolt, which hasn't snapped the extractor over the rim yet.

It appears to rely on intertia, together with the slight "shelf" that the extractor provides when the rifle is held upside-down.

Genius that Browning was, it's hard to imagine this was a design feature...
 
To those guys who don,t want to get out of their chairs. Coming from the military I just can't see owning a rifle that has to be held upright for it to cycle properly. I did have a 94 for a while, but didn't take the time to get to know it..

I enjoy studying the mechanics and operating principles of things I own and use. That's why I asked the question.
 
For the heck of it, I just cycled twelve A-ZOOM snap caps through my Marlin 1894CB chambered in .45 Colt with the rifle held upside down with zero feeding or ejection issues. I then repeated the "exercise" with the ejection port and loading gate facing the floor and that doesn't work well at all. I tend to agree with CraigC and rcmodel that this isn't a major issue ... interesting perhaps but definitely not something to worry about. For me as a right-handed shooter, I probably couldn't operate the lever lying on my back with the ejection port and loading gate facing my chest anyway. This may be an issue for a left-handed shooter though. For me, the most likely scenario would be that the ejection port and loading gate would be facing up or right and neither situation would present any problems.

:)
 
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The 1860 Henry was used in the American Civil War, though it wasn't the general-issue infantry rifle. The Spencer was issued to some regiments, and performed very well.

However, these rifles often went up against muzzleloaders, so nobody was too picky. By comparison, they were modern assault rifles. Some have even called the Henry the "first assault rifle."

The Russian Army got 300,000 Winchester 1895s, and some American and British units got them as well. Trench warfare favored bolt guns, though, and WW I ended up being 4 years of trench slaughter. Soon after WW I, the US was working on semiauto military rifles instead, and Russia was in shambles from its revolution.
 
As I remember reading, the 1895's for Russia were modified to take stripper clips to load the internal box magazine.

The rifle has a definite "profile problem" with the lever open, so this couldn't have been easy while laying down in the mud trying to avoid being a target.
 
The Marlins and the rest of the lever guns are pretty good. Hell won't freeze over and the sun will rise tomorrow if we buy them. I have Marlins, Winchesters (and their replicas) rifles and shotguns. My Marlin 38-55 with the tang sight is very accurate rifle loaded with Unique and a 240gr cast bullet.
However; in speed events with movement you will want an 1873. Ahhh..... Cowboys.
 
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