Do stories like this make you buy ammo at gun shows?

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Diggler

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I was considering ordering a few cases of 7.62x39 ammo online... then I saw this article.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040528-122605-9267r.htm
U.S. agencies collect, examine personal data on Americans
By Audrey Hudson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published May 28, 2004

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Numerous federal government agencies are collecting and sifting through massive amounts of personal information, including credit reports, credit-card purchases and other financial data, posing new privacy concerns, according to the General Accounting Office (GAO).

The GAO surveyed 128 federal departments and agencies and found that 52 are using, or planning to implement, 199 data-mining programs, with 131 already operational.
The Education, Defense, Homeland Security, Veterans Affairs, Health and Human Services, Interior, Labor, Justice, and Treasury departments are among those that use the contentious new technology to detect criminal or terrorist activity; manage human resources; gauge scientific research; detect fraud, waste and abuse; and monitor tax compliance.

The audit released yesterday shows 36 data-mining programs collect and analyze personal information that is purchased from the private sector, including credit reports and credit-card transactions. Additionally, 46 federal agencies share personal information that includes student-loan application data, bank-account numbers, credit-card information and taxpayer-identification numbers.

The Defense Department is the largest user of data-mining technology, followed by the Education Department, which uses private information to track the life of student direct loans and to monitor loan repayments.

"Mining government and private databases containing personal information creates a range of privacy concerns," the report said.

Data-mining technology can sift through massive amounts of information to uncover hidden patterns and subtle relationships to make predictions.

The technology "has led to concerns about the government's use of data mining to conduct a mass 'dataveillance' -- a surveillance of large groups of people -- to sift through vast amounts of personally identifying data to find individuals who might fit a terrorist profile," the GAO report said.

Sen. Daniel K. Akaka, Hawaii Democrat and ranking member of a Governmental Affairs financial management, budget and international security subcommittee, requested the nearly yearlong audit.

The most widely reported data-mining project -- the Pentagon's Total Information Awareness (TIA) program -- was shut down by Congress because of widespread privacy fears. The project sought to use credit-card, medical and travel records to search for terrorists and was dubbed by privacy advocates as a "supersnoop" system to spy on Americans.

"We always knew that the [TIA] program was not the only data-surveillance program out there, but it now appears possible that such activities are even more widespread than we imagined," said Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) technology and liberty program.

Bob Barr, chairman of the American Conservative Union Foundation's 21st Century Center for Privacy and Freedom and a former congressman from Georgia, said the use of data mining to spy on American citizens will continue to grow until Congress addresses the issue.

"Many in Washington cheered when it appeared the Congress killed TIA. However, as I said at the time and have repeated since, it is not dead, only renamed and resurfaced elsewhere," Mr. Barr said.

"We cannot rely on this or any other administration to pull back on its own. The executive branch likes information on citizens far too much to voluntarily stop developing ever more and expanded databases," he said.

The ACLU said some programs appear to be a "dragnet on the general population," including a Homeland Security program that "correlates events and people to specific information" and a Defense Intelligence Agency data-mining program to "identify foreign terrorists or U.S. citizens connected to foreign terrorism activities."

Data mining is used by the Health and Human Services Department to monitor food and drug safety. The department is developing a data-mining tool to track and report "adverse incidents" involving food, cosmetics, and dietary supplements.

Homeland Security is developing an "incident data mart," which will "look through incident logs for patterns of events." Incident is defined as "an event involving law enforcement or government agency for which a log was created (e.g. traffic ticket, drug arrest, or firearm possession)." The system will "look at crimes in a particular geographic location, particular types of arrest, or any type of unusual activity."

The GAO report did not include classified programs, and some agencies did not respond to its request for information, including the CIA, National Security Agency and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

James Dempsey, executive director of the Center for Democracy & Technology, said it is likely that there are data-mining programs not listed in the report.

"More and more agencies are relying on complex data-mining techniques and commercial data, a combination that has significant potential to threaten civil liberties," Mr. Dempsey said.
It makes me nervous to think that I could have my door knocked on (or down) because my credit card has a charge to aimsurplus.com on it.
 
Too late for me. When I think of all the different places my name is on various government computers, and all the times I have purchased guns from dealers and ammo over the internet, I conclude there must already be a file on me somewhere in Washington. Makes me feel like old times, since there's probably one on me in the East German secret police files, too. Our country gets more like the old DDR every day.
 
Diggler,
We're all on somebodies data bank list anyway and have been for years.
sigh
Such is life in the 21st century.
Have you flown anywhere in the past few months? Contributed funds to poor starving kids in the mid-east?
Cash and carry might still be a viable option but you'll want to have proof on you of where that cash came from and pray it was never in the hands of a drug dealer type with any residue floating around when it might have been in his possession... ya know?
Worse yet, we're all guilty of breaking some law somewhere or of some future law where the legislaters throw in the old "retroactive" trick (who cares about ex posto facto nowadays).
But looking at the bright side of things... it keeps attorneys busy making money which is good if you're an attorney :D (which I'm not)
 
You posted on a gun list - they got you now! Buy for the best price and convenience. Support the RKBA organizations, that's much better than planning to live on a mountain, eat old goat jerky and wait for the black heliocopters.

Heck, I've written progun letters to the Congress. So, I'm worried about buying ammo?
 
Who cares

I'm sure we are all on a database somewhere. Make your plans accordingly. It amazes me that the homosexual lobby with 2% of the poplulation can change the social fabric of the country when 65 million gun owners by and large are too lazy too. And we are ARMED.

Do you write letter to your Congressman ? Senators ? (I do)

Do you take the time to make phone calls ? (I did)

Did you take someone shooting this month ? (I Have)

I've read a number of quotes on your postings, many from the founding fathers. I'd only sound like an idiot trying to write something similar.

GET ACTIVE People. Its our country.
 
HELLO .GOV! AMERICAN CITIZENS ARE NOT THE TERRORISTS. THE TERRORISTS ARE MOST LIKELY ARAB FOREIGN NATIONALS. FIND AND DEPORT THEM AND LEAVE US THE HELL ALONE!

Your pal,
Riley:)
 
I buy ammo all the time with my credit card. And will continue to do so.

My attitude is this: screw them. If they want to keep tabs on me, screw them. If they think I'm some kind of "terrorist" because I buy guns, ammo, and frequent message boards such as this, then screw them.

The government wants you to be afraid of it. If you're afraid of the government, then it wins and you lose. The more fearful you are of the government, the more empowered it becomes. Your fear is the government's fuel. Nothing makes a government more nervous than a person who does not fear it.

I will not cower. I will not hide. I will not live a paranoid, "secretive" life. I refuse to be afraid of the government. Screw them.
 
...In Texas...

Got CHL:

Got Prints on file with the state
Got Prints on file with the FBI
BATFE knows you buy guns

The one I hate is the registration associated with a few of my guns when I lived in the PRK!

Thats just the way it is!
 
Note the part that says data mining will enable making predictions.What do you think the predictor of a domistic terroist will be in the H.Klintoon administration.No reasonable person would have THAT many GUNS and THAT much AMMO.
 
Denko's right.

All the Bush/GWOT apologists who swear that giving up a little freedom in exchange for a little security is OK will be singing a different tune if Hillary were President....

or Attorney General in a Kerry Administration.......
 
The government has access to a tremendous amount of data about people that is collected and credit-card usage may be just another link to people that are "persons of interest" to Big Brother.

I never thought too much of who tracks my credit card use as I really very seldom us it. I just hate like he!! seeing the bill each month!! Bad enough to have to deal with the gas credit cards!!

I usually pay cash for my gun and ammo purchases as I can sometimes get a better deal with a cash transaction. Buying a gun from an FFL gets you on enough lists anyway so a credit card transaction is just another one. And why pay a higher price at my gun shop when he offers a discount on cash purchases? Merchants usually get hit with around a 3% credit card fee anyway if a customer uses his card, so to me it just is easier all around to bring in the greenbacks and let the shop owner make a little bit more.
 
I figure that with gunzine subscriptions, letters to Congress, yellow sheets and whatall, I'm bound to be in somebody's computer. In one, in all, nowadays.

But a credit card receipt from Lost Wages, Nevada, means I couldn't have been doing Bad Things in Atlanta, that day. :D Who'd ever ask if you swapped VISA cards with somebody? "Everybody knows..."

Art

"A twisted mind can be a helpful thing."
 
I'm with Molon Labe.

Recently a friend has told me that since learning about TIA, Carnavore and all the other snooping tools that the .gov has and is developing, he has changed his surfing habits. He now avoids some of the political sites he used to visit, most of the adult sites like rotten.com. He's worried that he may get questionalbe stuff inadvertelntly and get busted for it. Sad....

I'm sure theres a file on me somewhere in the bowels of the Fed machine, and 'prolly a small shell script running somewhere to collect up postings and the like associated with my online IDs. Frell'em! I think my sig says all the needs to be said about my opinion.
 
It amazes me that the homosexual lobby with 2% of the poplulation can change the social fabric of the country when 65 million gun owners by and large are too lazy too. And we are ARMED.
God bless you for saying that. It's something that should be on every gun owner's mind, come election day.

Okay, back to the point of this thread. I agree, we're all on a list somewhere, and if nothing else, it's the one that keeps track of people who participate on pro-gun internet forums. Oh well. :scrutiny:
 
I'm HAPPY to be on "their" lists if they exist. I WANT them to know where I stand. I've been a gun owner for 40 years and a 2nd Amendment supporter for 35. Damn proud of it too!
 
This is why I won't buy ammo from J&G in Prescott - they take your driver's license data down, even if you pay cash. They claim it is so they can prove you are over 21 (to whom?).
 
Personally, when it comes to personal privacy I'm more concerned over the slow transition to a cashless society than I am data mining because when that finally comes about everything that you buy or sell, and thus everything that you do, will be in a centralized database somewhere and that my friends will be the end of privacy as we know it. Buy children's toys and they know you've got kids. Buy Hoppes, bore swabs, subscribe to Guns&Ammo, etc. and they know you own guns. Buy DVD's and they know you own a DVD player. Buy beach towels and suntan lotion and they know you're headed for the water, and so on. Just imagine how someone could track your life if they knew everything you'd bought this past week along with when and where. Frightening, isn't it?
 
There's strength in numbers...

I'm proud, very proud to be on that list with you fellas!:D

Stay United, stay fearless, and stay strong

Yours Respectfully in Arms,
paco
 
What is the worst thing they can do to you, send you to prison? Do you think they WANT 100,000 p*ssed off gunnies in prison where they would be so p*ssed off they would set up a formal firearms education course for the common prisoners.

"Now the first thing is you've got to hold the pistol so the sights are on top, not the side. Now aim for the COM."

OK,, ok, so they could hang you, so what? Hanging is better than a slow death by cancer or getting stuck in a nursing home forever.
 
lol, you shouldn't be scared of the government keeping tabs on your purchases. Just imagine when Kroger has their own army of enforcers and breaks down your door...

"We know you bought bathroom supplies at Wal-Mart.. fess up or else!"

If the government was as effecient as the credit card offer groups and the supermarkets, we would be in major trouble. The government may lose track of you, but Visa always finds you :D
 
It amazes me that the homosexual lobby with 2% of the poplulation can change the social fabric of the country when 65 million gun owners by and large are too lazy too. And we are ARMED.

That's because, to the pc mind, they are victims and we are not.
 
I'm sure we are all on a database somewhere. Make your plans accordingly. It amazes me that the homosexual lobby with 2% of the poplulation can change the social fabric of the country when 65 million gun owners by and large are too lazy too. And we are ARMED.
More like 'too paranoid' to (for many / most).

As already posted above - unless you think to spend your life like some isolated survivalist, our lives are already too integrated, too exposed for it to matter any.

If a person is concerned about media / lib govt distortions about bulk ammo purchases et al, then you better spend some of that nervous energy educating the public and politicians, and crafting a 'press kit' for another family member to release post some imagined 'incident', detailing the whys and wherefors of your purchasing decisions, to offset the negative propaganda.
 
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