Do you need FFL to set up table at gun show?

[bushmaster1313]

Hypothetical Question

I know there is a fierce debate as to when a private collector who buys and sells crosses the line and becomes an FFL.

1. If a non-FFL buys a table at a gun show and displays his collection of guns with the intent of selling any that he could sell for a good price, is he now engaged in the business of dealing in firearms?

2. Do gun shows require people to be FFL's if they want to buy a table and display guns?

 

[AirForceShooter]

I'm sure the ATF people will tell you right after you set up.

They're at almost every show.

Personally I'd recommend against it.

AFS

 

[bob40caliber]

Many private collectors set up a table at the TR NJ gun show that used to be at Elks.
Since I left NJ...I believe that little show moved to the AMVETS in TR/Lakewood.
But a show like that is 95% private collectors and 5% dealers and run by a gun collectors organization.

So I think the answer as to whether it is wise to set up a table as a private collector may depend on the show itself.

 

[calaverasslim]

Some gun show promoters require a person to have an FFL to sell firearms, some do not. Some states require it. If the state does not and neither does the promoter, then go for it.

But be aware you may be approached by the ATF and hassled.

Only you may decide if it is worth the hassle

 

[Bubbles]

I wouldn't do it more than once.

 

[NavyLCDR]

1. Not necessarily.
2. Some do, some don't.

 

[oneounceload]

Gun shows I have been to in NV and L have folks selling their "private collections" all the time. If, however, you start showing up at the same shows over and over with new batches of stuff, you'll have some answering to do

 

[bkhosken]

I just did this. In FL most shows have at LEAST 10-30 tables with "private sale" tags on them indicating they are NOT FFL holders. I sold a few guns, checked I.D. to make sure they were FL residents, and off they went. The key is if you do this every month or a couple times a month, buying and selling guns for profit like a business, then you need an FFL. If you do this once or twice a year, as a way to buy/sell/trade NOT for profit, then I believe it's OK. Your mileage may vary, etc.etc.

 

[Art Eatman]

If you are selling from your private collection, you are not "engaged in business". BATFE defines "business" as the mix of both buying and selling.

So far, as near as I can tell, if you buy a firearm and shoot it some and then later decide you don't want to keep it and then offer it for sale, it is not "business" since you did not buy it for the purpose of resale.

So: If you take some firearm in as a trade-in at a gunshow, do not try to resell it at that gunshow. That is where BATFE has come down on non-FFL people. "Engaging in business without an FFL". Thus, one should avoid taking a trade-in that's not potentially desirable as a "keeper".

 

[mgmorden]

This is similar to the C&R restriction, in that we can't use that for the purposes of dealing either.

Personally, it's open to some interpretation, but to be safe I wouldn't do it. Selling a few guns at a gun show is fine, but specifically procuring a table to do so may cross the line in the eyes of some.

IMHO, better safe than sorry. The penalties for dealing without a license aren't exactly a slap on the wrist.

 

[bushmaster1313]

IMHO, better safe than sorry. The penalties for dealing without a license aren't exactly a slap on the wrist.

Even if I thought it might be okay I still would not do it.

This has been a great thread. Thanks to everyone.

 

[bubba in ca]

Paranoia strikes deep...

that`s what private sales are all about--an individual selling his guns to an other individual. You are legal as long as your state laws don`t restrict private party sales. Renting (not buying) a table at a gun show is the norm. Keep records and verify the State ID of the purchasers. Some states even allow gun sales at swap meets.

Yes, under some weird circumstance, you could attract the attention of the ATF, but an occasional table of used guns and misc. accesories isn`t likely to do this.

What makes a dealer? He is somebody who regularly buys and sells with intent to make a profit. Volume of sales and turnover rate are a big part of intent to make a profit. If that describes you, back off or get an ffl.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I know non-FFL's that regularly buy and sell mostly "collectible" guns nearly constantly and set up at every gun show. They've been doing it for years without any ATF problems. I don't consider them to be dealing. Their collections are just more fluid than most...Are they making a profit? Absolutely. Very few people that sell off their collectible guns are gonna do it at a loss.

 

[oneounceload]

Here in FL, it is done all the time, and most folks do not keep records - private party FTF sale of an item does not require paperwork

Several flea markets here have folks who deal in old and milsurp guns

 

[Art Eatman]

Leaving out any state laws of whatever sort: The bottom line is that unless a show's promoter says "Dealers Only", one need not have an FFL to get a table at a gunshow.

The only real issue is BATFE's view as to whether or not somebody is engaged in business. They define that as buying and selling. Again, if you are only selling from a collection, you're legal.

Again, you can take trade-ins or buy guns, but you really need to carry those home with you and hold on to them for some undefined-by-BATFE period of time. Reselling at the same show as where you acquired the gun has been regarded by BATFE as engaging in business without an FFL.

Enough...