Do you think new tech could bring back old guns?

[stchman]

I've never had any reliability problems with my Broomhandle.

Every one I've ever seen and shot doesn't shoot very reliably. The C96 is the worst of the two.

 

[jmr40]

I'm sure it could be done. I'm not sure there is a huge market for it.

 

[JohnBiltz]

[QUOTE="

Now if you could do what the Cowboy competition people have done then maybe a new market opens up. It would be a tough sell though.[/QUOTE]
I thought about this after I posted and realized that it would never work. Let's say you started something like Cowboy competition shooting. Everyone dressed up, maybe even drove up in vintage automobiles. The problem is everyone is going to be shooting 1911s.

 

[cfullgraf]

The success or failure of US Armament's Colt 1903 reproduction might be an indicator on whether there is a market for building reproductions.

 

[theotherwaldo]

How about "print your own low-stress replacement parts" putting original and antique guns back on the firing line?

 

[huntsman]

If it involves MIM I’ll pass, you can put lipstick on a pig but that don’t get you a cute date.

FWIW MIM on a current production guns is a fact of life I begrudgingly accept now.

 

[Hasaf]

The success or failure of US Armament's Colt 1903 reproduction might be an indicator on whether there is a market for building reproductions.

I really considered one of those. The stumbling point was the price. Even at half the price I would hesitate. If they could get the price down to. . . say the price of my Kimber Micro, about 425, I wouldn't hesitate to get one.

image from here

 

[Jim Watson]

[QUOTE="

Now if you could do what the Cowboy competition people have done then maybe a new market opens up. It would be a tough sell though.

I thought about this after I posted and realized that it would never work. Let's say you started something like Cowboy competition shooting. Everyone dressed up, maybe even drove up in vintage automobiles. The problem is everyone is going to be shooting 1911s.[/QUOTE]

Being done. See Zoot Shooters. Guns prior to 1950 but the real milieu is the Roaring Twenties and the Depression.
http://www.zootshooters.com/
They do say that 1911 and 1927 Thompson are usual. But pictures show a number of other types.

 

[DeadFlies]

I bought a box of Kent Bismuth (I was too cheap to spring for Tungsten Matrix) so I could shoot non-toxic out of my old A5 without all the problems associated with steel shot. Does that count?

 

[ancientnoob]

I really considered one of those. The stumbling point was the price. Even at half the price I would hesitate. If they could get the price down to. . . say the price of my Kimber Micro, about 425, I wouldn't hesitate to get one.
View attachment 781661
image from here

Ok. This pistol is an abortion sorry to say. First I can accept only being available in .32, even though few today shoot the cartridge. I can accept the finish and grips, I can even accept Colt out sourcing the manufacture. What the I cannot accept is fake US property General Officers roll marks. It’s trying to be something it’s not. I would much rather they called it model 2016 or something. They should have at least chambered in .380 or 9mm. Then the unmitigated gaul to charge $1200 for it.
Why not get a nice old one with charm and character? They have done something they cannot come back from. I am not a purist or a collector in a strick regard, but sheesh... like someone said it will never hold a candle to an original piece. I would be embarrassed to have a fake general officers pistol. If it’s going to be a tool let it at least be an honest one.

 

[cfullgraf]

If it’s going to be a tool let it at least be an honest one.

In my opinion, this is why many reproductions fail.

Old design firearms will never be able to compete as a "tool" with current design and manufacture guns. Modern guns fix many of the "ills" of the old guns. Lighter weight, larger caliber for the size of the gun, higher capacity, and so forth and so forth. As a tool, the old designs just will not compete with the striker fired, "tupperware" wonders.

But, as a fun gun to be able to shoot a classic design without worry about destroying the value of a fine, old firearm, the reproduction manufacture guns could excel. Participating in period specific shooting activities is another place the reproduction guns could excel.

Specifically, I have my grandfather's Colt 1908 that he carried in France during the Great War. I'm blessed to have his gun but I really do not want to wear it out. While I do also have a Colt 1903 built in 1921, I'd rather have fun shooting the new, 2017 production US Armament Colt license built model 1903.

There are several older, but somewhat current firearms that I would like to have and enjoy but there are just not many available on the market.

Reproductions could fill that need

 

[kayak-man]

Wow, this discussion has been WAY better than I was expecting!

I think TheOtherWaldo has a really good point about a potential market for replacement parts, I hadn't even thought of that.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

It is interesting to me that the prophecy in this thread is entirely self-fulfilling.

I also looked at that 1903. As stated above the stumbler is the price. Until they can compete with the used market the pistols will not sell well. The delta in price is too great to justify purchasing new, especially when good or excellent originals can be found under $1k.

 

[huntsman]

Parker reproductions worked, at least for a brief time. Their quality was better than the original Parker guns and that’s saying something. But there’s just not the volume in sales.

A Colt M1908 would be cool to own and I’d want it like it came off the line NOS but cool doesn’t sell a lot and there’s way more options in the “tool” category now.

 

[GEM]

Just as an aside, when I was taking my TX CHL test, three older folks were sharing one 380 Colt 1908. It was from some Grandpop. It didn't help that they loaded all their magazines backwards. The instructor gently got them through the test.

Sometimes I have found memories of my 1969 Pontiac that I drove across country with its big V-8 in the midst of summer and 100 degree temperatures. But today, my modern SUV with AC is so nice.

 

[somethingbenign]

As a new comer to the party I'd jump at the chance for vintage style firearms, original or not, that cost less than my mortgage. Even just getting reproductions of classic guns in more readily available calibers would be great. A Webley MK VI in 38 sp or VZ 24 in .308 would help me cross a number of items off my bucket list with greater ease since I wasn't alive when these guns and their ammo were considered surplus but not collectors items. On the flip side I'm a market force of one and I can't say I know many that would follow suit. A boy can dream I suppose.

 

[ancientnoob]

As a new comer to the party I'd jump at the chance for vintage style firearms, original or not, that cost less than my mortgage. Even just getting reproductions of classic guns in more readily available calibers would be great. A Webley MK VI in 38 sp or VZ 24 in .308 would help me cross a number of items off my bucket list with greater ease since I wasn't alive when these guns and their ammo were considered surplus but not collectors items. On the flip side I'm a market force of one and I can't say I know many that would follow suit. A boy can dream I suppose.

You can find plenty of Webley MK VI that have been rechambered in the ‘50s for .45 Auto in fairly decent condition for about $800 maybe less. Something to keep an eye out for.

 

[tark]

The C96 is the worst of the two.

The C-96 is the first automatic pistol design that actually WORKED. Mine has digested over four thousand rounds in the twenty plus years I have owned it. Can't remember it EVER jamming. Never owned a Luger.

 

[OldFashioned]

The C-96 is the first automatic pistol design that actually WORKED. Mine has digested over four thousand rounds in the twenty plus years I have owned it. Can't remember it EVER jamming. Never owned a Luger.

I do! Its eaten many many boxes of 9mm and I too cannot ever remember a jam. Not bad for a gun that is 100 years old. If you haven't found a c96 or luger that ran reliably then your using weak ammo or those guns were terribly cared for. At most I bet a few springs would have them running like 100 years ago.... Which is why I don't really go for modern guns I like things that have stood the test of time.

 

[Slamfire]

You know, I like the Colt New Service, compact, not too heavy, yet chambered in 45 LC and rarely, the 38 Special:




But I hate the grip shape.Even shooting it Bullseye style, the frame shape is uncomfortable. Notice the Pachmayer grip adapter on this Colt Detective Special. All of these old Colts have frames shaped by the Circus Rubber Man. Normal humans had to buy these grip adapters . And on this revolver, tiny sights.



I hate the tiny sights. The front sights on the things were about the thickness of a business card, and the rear notch, about the same. And then, you can't adjust the sights, so if the thing does not shoot to point of impact, you are really and truly hosed. That is one reason I passed up all the top break S&W replicas. I never saw one with adjustable sights, and the ones I got to shoot, never shot near point of aim.I want to shoot my guns, I want to hit what I am aiming, and I won't put up with medieval torture devices disguised as guns.

 

[CapnMac]

Well, if we look at the recent expereince with AO/(new)Inland M-1 carbine reproductions, then it's not real promising.
Despite having all sorts of modern technology at hand, the reproductions have poor machining, poor wood, and poor QC--and at significantly high MSRP.

For an M-1 Carbine.

A C-96 Mauser, a Lahti, or the like? Beggars the imagination, that does.

 

[Rembrandt]

The older designs and parts were built using 3 axis machining. This meant that when you reached the limitations of each axis, the part needed to be realigned to remove more material or drill holes. Reaching the limit of each axis required the operator to precisely control this process to the nearest thousandth manually. Some machinist were better at it than others, thus variations from one part to another (or wider range of tolerance for each part to compensate for error).

Fast forward to current 5 axis CNC machining, you can perform more operations at complex angles and positions....while monitoring the tolerances with a computer. Taking the human error factor out and giving more precise machining. The other advancement is EDM and laser technology. Today's equipment is more than capable of repeatable precision unheard of years ago.

Add to all this the advancement in metallurgy, plating, coatings and heat treatment.....you could only imagine what John Browning could have done with it all.

Best example of combining these modern technologies into a modern firearm would be what Arnie Boberg did with his bullpup 9mm......he designed and created parts that could have never been made cost effectively 20 or 30 years ago.

 

[deadin]

It would take two things for tech to "bring-back" old guns. First would be enough of a demand to make it feasible and second, a price point of less than what an original can be bought....