Does any company offer some kind of no-jam guarantee?

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I've dealt with borrowed or inherated autoloaders enough to be leery of them and their reliability. But yeah, they may not have had the best care, and maybe modern manufacturing is better.

Still, I'm looking to buy one for myself, and one of the concerns I've got is that I'm going to drop a good $600+ dollars on a nice HD gun, take it out to the range, and find myself staring at the smoke rising from a stovepiped round or wanting to hurl the jammed thing through the target.

At which point I'd have to decide between sticking with my .357 mag revolver, spending more money on a gunsmith, or just keep shooting and hope it doesn't happen when its important.

I read reviews, but those typically deal with a hundred or so rounds going through a single pistol that in many cases the company knows is going to a reviewer. When I worked for an electronics company we never shipped anything for a demo without giving it some extra testing and loving care.

It would make me feel a lot better if some company had a deal where if the gun jams in the first year you can send it back for a new one. Beyond taking the stress out of that first visit to the range it would speak volumes of their quality control.
 
There are many semi-autos that are reliable. However if you are waiting for a gaurantee like you mentioned it isn't going to happen. Remember they would also de-facto be warranting against ammo, and just plain dumb people who mishandle weapons.
 
A lot of companies stand behind their product, but I don't know much about the CS services of each of them.

I do know that for autoloaders, Glocks and Springfield XDs (or XDMs) have a very good reputation for not jamming. Im sure there are others (the name Sig and HK get tossed around as quality guns) but those are two I know function good.
 
None will do what you are asking it would be a nightmare for most companies because some guns have a "break-in period." Glock is the only company that comes to mind that would be able to get away with it. 2k+ rounds through my 22c and not a single jam, fte or ftf.
 
The revolver vs autoloader "jam question" has been answered some time ago by LE & Military organizations worldwide. As for send-it-back-for-a-new-one warranty? I'm not sure of many (any?) products representing a major expenditure (~$300) who offer anything like that. Only my Tilley Hat provides a "Guarantee Against Loss" and they cost so much at original purchase that they can afford to give a hat or two away.
 
I have a Glock 34,an XD 40 and a Beretta PX 4 Storm SC and have had zero problems with jams using wally world Federal bulk ammo. All three of these guns have eaten everything i have fed them so far.
 
I could never see that type of guarantee due to wide/varied ammo (I.e. Lousy ammo and and/or poor handloads) and shooter error i.e limp wristing shots.
 
Any gun maker - even Ruger, who has no written warranty - will warrant their products against defects in materials or workmanship for X amount of time. To guarantee (not the same as a warranty) against any kind of stoppage for any reason is unrealistic, however.
 
Ghost Tracker said:
The revolver vs autoloader "jam question" has been answered some time ago by LE & Military organizations worldwide.
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Was the answer "suck it up and practice clearing jams, six rounds just isn't going to cut it" ?

I suppose I did notice a lot of people in training threads saying they like having a friend load their magazines and sneak some snap caps in there for practice.

I guess that's just the choice to be made then?
 
Was the answer "suck it up and practice clearing jams, six rounds just isn't going to cut it" ?
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If you're spoiling for a revolver vs. autoloader debate then either ask the direct question or simply keep & shoot your revolver. I'm not the kind of guy who's inclined to try to sway your (IMHO) rather obsolete opinion or...
...hurl the jammed thing through the target...
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You can go argue the wisdom of the autoloading handgun with military & LE decision-makers who are a LOT smarter than me. And, undoubtedly, there's plenty of revolver pistoleros 'round here who might agree with 'ya. But you've starting this thread & asked your question in the "Autoloader" sub-forum. :confused:
 
$600 isn't a whole lot.

There is no such thing as perfection. All machines fail eventually. It's a question of how likely it is to happen when you need it the most. The vast majority of guns for sale today are reliable enough out of the box for home defense.
 
denster said:
There are many semi-autos that are reliable. However if you are waiting for a gaurantee like you mentioned it isn't going to happen. Remember they would also de-facto be warranting against ammo, and just plain dumb people who mishandle weapons.
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Agree %10000000000.
 
Though the SIG SP 2340 is not the illustrius auto that most folks crave there is no limper wrist than that of my wife. If she cant get a decent stove pipe out of it it aint gonna happen. As for a guarantee get real no company can possibly guess what will be fired from the guns that they manufacture. The only guarantee I can give you is that I can load ammo that will not function in anything you stuff it into more than once so make the first shot count or shame on you. Sorry bout that rant over nothing personal.
There are no guarantees in life.
T
 
T Bran said:
. As for a guarantee get real no company can possibly guess what will be fired from the guns that they manufacture
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A few people have mentioned this, and I'd have figured there would be some kind of caveat regarding what ammo you could use, and that you haven't filled the thing up with honey etc etc etc. Same deal as with other things with guarantees like powertrains or electronics.

I think most guns have some sort of guarantee on their productions. It's just a matter of wether a defect is something like "will occasionally jam because the feedramp is a millimeter off" or if they only cover defects that are gross obvious errors.


Ghost Tracker said:
But you've starting this thread & asked your question in the "Autoloader" sub-forum. :confused:
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Well I want an autoloader, just one that shoots more than the first round.

I was kinda hoping there actually was someplace with some kind of deal like that, you guys would know who it was, and then I could buy their gun.
 
Nothing is ever perfect. You may need some time to discover what ammo your gun likes and how best to handle it.

If you are afraid of jams in a defensive situation get ahold of a Ruger Mark III or 22/45 and go to Wal-Mart for a big box of Remington Golden Bullets. By the time you're done shooting that box tap-rack-bang will be an automatic reaction for you. :)

Yes, that is a bit of a joke, but it also holds more than a bit of truth. We had the cheap, Remington ammo for DH's old .22 Marlin, which will shoot anything, and that's what we took to the concealed carry class with the borrowed Ruger pistols.

Not long after I'd finished up that Remington in my own Mark III I shot an action pistol match with a borrowed gun, had a jam, and was able to clear it automatically, without thinking about it, and without going over my time allotment.

There are trade-offs for all things. If you carry a revolver you get reliability at the price of limited rounds before reloading. If you carry a semi-auto you get more rounds and an easier reload at the price of occasional malfunctions. The right combination of gun and ammo minimize that price but if you shoot a semi-auto you will eventually have to clear a jam. You learn how for the same reason that you learn to change a tire -- so that when a problem happens you can cope with it.
 
I shoot my hand loaded ammo exclusively and have done so for 30+ years. During this period I have had exactly zero jamming or any other problems. The auto loaders I load for are Glocks(1), Taurus(7), XD's(2), Berreta(1), Star(1), Makorov(1) and I'm certain I've missed few. Those listed are chambered in either or both 9mm and .40 S&W.

I will say this though, I have hopelessly tried to solve jamming issues back before I decided to reload, to no avail. Factory ammunition is one size fits all and also suffers inconsistencies with powder charges, seating depths, and primer seating deths. I've proven to some by pulling bullets from factory and then weighing the powder charges, that the powder charges have an extreme spread. And being that auto loaders depend on pressures to produce consistent cycling, large variances are sure to have a major impact on reliable function.
 
None of my semi-autos exhibit feeding problems or "jamming". I regularly shoot my Browning Hi Power, two HK P7's, Bertta M85FS, Luger, two CZ-75's, HK USP, Sig P228, Ruger MK II's, Makarovs, 1911's, etc without ANY failures.

If you are afraid of jams in a defensive situation get ahold of a Ruger Mark III or 22/45 and go to Wal-Mart for a big box of Remington Golden Bullets. By the time you're done shooting that box tap-rack-bang will be an automatic reaction for you.
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Take any semi-auto .22 pistol and mix in Remington Golden Bullets and you WILL have a jam-o-matic. Now, that I will personally GUARANTEE.
 
Note, please, that no REVOLVER manufacturer has a "will never fail to fire for any reason whatsoever" guarantee, either.

There's plenty of reasons why a revolver might not fire, and a few reasons why one might jam.

Many modern autoloaders are VERY reliable. Are they AS reliable as a good revolver? Probably not.

Are they reliable enough to be depended on by folks who need them to work? Generally, yes. (Smart users learn stoppage clearance drills, though. Never know when your ammo might let you down.)

Are they reliable enough for you? I don't know. What rate of stoppage would you accept? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 10,000?
 
Here is a 1,000 rounds through one of those "jam-a-matic" 1911's everyone always complains about.

Todd Jarrett Para SSP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7wL2QuFTLQ

Here is 1,000 rounds through one of those "cheap plastic" Glock's folks always complain about. Of course he did melt the plastic guide rod, but the gun kept on functioning.

James Yeager G19
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_JuF23qazI

I think the market has spoken for the reliability of semi-autos. If they all jammed all the time, nobody would buy them, no matter how many rounds they hold.
 
JTQ said:
Here is a 1,000 rounds through one of those "jam-a-matic" 1911's everyone always complains about.

I think the market has spoken for the reliability of semi-autos. If they all jammed all the time, nobody would buy them, no matter how many rounds they hold.
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That's the thing though. Some guns will just gobble up ammo of at least certain types and not jam. Perhaps most that roll off the assembly line.

However I've experienced.

-Baretta M9 type gun that would frequently jam on wide mouthed defensive ammo, though it handled ball just fine.

-A M9 type that had some weird thing where the guide rod would get loose, at which point it wouldn't fire.

-Taurus 1911 that would reliably jam if you put in a full clip of wide mouthed defensive ammo. Fed ball like a champ though.

-Different 1911 that popped the primers out of the ammo, which would as often as not cause a jam depending on if and where the primer fell into the guns mechanisms. I don't know if that was the fault of the ammo, the gun, or if issues with both that usually aren't a problem combined to make a perfect storm. However just like the gun, people wouldn't buy the ammo if it regularly rained loose primers.


The bottom line is that some people shooting the same ammo or the same model of weapon didn't have those problems.

I suspect it has to do with margin in the manufacturing process. Guns don't come off identical to the atom. And differences in shape or spring strength that a person would have difficulty percieving could make the difference between a jam-o-matic and 100% reliability.

I'd just like to be able to trade the former in for the latter.

Since that doesn't seem to be an option, do you guys know of any independent testers that buy guns through commercial channels and test out a bunch of the same model with representative defensive rounds? I know the military does that, but thst's for their guns and I belive ball ammo only.

Otherwise I only know of reviewers that use a single gun of a specific model.




-Taurus 1911
 
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