Does anyone have their press electrically grounded?
- Thread starter Nozzelnut
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WayneConrad
Member
No chance. Not even in dry, electrically charged Phoenix. Reload, be happy.
Princi
Member
I think it is a good question, and not something I ever thought about, but I've seen some amazing static discharges. Also, having had the house taking a direct lightning hit once, and the damage that was done was amazing. Anything that had a wire connected to it, and was electronic, got fried. I had the earphones plugged in on my Walkman and it was toast. My wife didn't have her earphones plugged in and her's was fine.
Currently, the lightning arrestors, A/C electrical ground, and all the re-bar on the swimming pool are all tied together. There are also copper plates buried in the ground on all corners of the house. I'd say I had a pretty good ground. However, a lot has to do with the conductivity of the soil.
One day in Vietnam it was raining and my feet were wet. All the equipment in the communication's center was grounded to a common ground - including the workbench that the teletype people had next to my safe. Well, someone had pushed the bench up against my safe. I went to get into the safe to get my Crypto books and got quite a surprising shock. I was an unhappy camper because I thought someone had rigged it to get me. However, when I investigated I found that between the Comm Center common ground and a mud puddle there was 67 volts A/C. There may have been even more when I got the shock.
So, if my house took another direct hit, what kind of voltage would be present on my common ground? I know there would be one heck of a current flow, and since there is some resistance present, there has to be some IR drop. I wouldn't want to be touching anything that is on that common ground bus at the time.
In other words: don't ground your press!!! Actually, if it is storming outside, don't be touching any metal objects anyhow.
Currently, the lightning arrestors, A/C electrical ground, and all the re-bar on the swimming pool are all tied together. There are also copper plates buried in the ground on all corners of the house. I'd say I had a pretty good ground. However, a lot has to do with the conductivity of the soil.
One day in Vietnam it was raining and my feet were wet. All the equipment in the communication's center was grounded to a common ground - including the workbench that the teletype people had next to my safe. Well, someone had pushed the bench up against my safe. I went to get into the safe to get my Crypto books and got quite a surprising shock. I was an unhappy camper because I thought someone had rigged it to get me. However, when I investigated I found that between the Comm Center common ground and a mud puddle there was 67 volts A/C. There may have been even more when I got the shock.
So, if my house took another direct hit, what kind of voltage would be present on my common ground? I know there would be one heck of a current flow, and since there is some resistance present, there has to be some IR drop. I wouldn't want to be touching anything that is on that common ground bus at the time.
In other words: don't ground your press!!! Actually, if it is storming outside, don't be touching any metal objects anyhow.
Halo
Member
It's been a long time since I studied the basics of electricity, so there's a good chance I'm way off here, but if you have a static charge built up on your body doesn't the shock occur when you touch something that is grounded? In other words, wouldn't a grounded press increase the chance of a static discharge rather than decrease it?
FlyinBryan
Member
actually, static discharge can occur between two non grounded objects, and can even occur between two nonconductive objects.
many times static charge will develop between two objects with zero megohms to ground each, in other words, in many instances, earth ground potential has nothing to do with the discharge paths that static charges seek.
i wouldnt worry about grounding it.
(unless it requires a/c voltage to operate, then, yes, it should be grounded)
many times static charge will develop between two objects with zero megohms to ground each, in other words, in many instances, earth ground potential has nothing to do with the discharge paths that static charges seek.
i wouldnt worry about grounding it.
(unless it requires a/c voltage to operate, then, yes, it should be grounded)
zxcvbob
Member
Even blackpowder is not nearly as succeptable to static electricity as people think it is.
If a primer goes off, it's because you mashed it sideways or something. Grounding won't help that. Just make sure you have the blast shield on your press's primer tube if it has one.
If a primer goes off, it's because you mashed it sideways or something. Grounding won't help that. Just make sure you have the blast shield on your press's primer tube if it has one.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
No problems since I got started in all this happiness in 1950...
JohnnyGrey
Member
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If you're worried about static, wouldn't it be logical to ground yourself to the press via a wrist strap?
Shoney
Member
Dirtypacman
Member
No I don't have it grounded.
I do have grounds on all the outlets any equipment is plugged into.
I do have grounds on all the outlets any equipment is plugged into.
The Tourist
member
I personally, do not. However Homeland Security was here last year and installed one for me. It appears that my magazines and Bible were already causing sparks, and they were grounded. They also installed a very helpful version of their "On Star" system so I can heard from the privacy of my livingroom.
David Wile
Member
Hey folks,
In the early 1970s, I was a federal safety and health specialist working at the Marine Corps Base in Quantico, VA. The Marine Corps competition shooting team had a special squad that did nothing but reload ammunition for the shooters. These guys made some very good ammunition, and it was the first place I ever saw electronic scales being used along with balance beam scales. The concrete floor was covered with thick rubber padding, and each Marine wore a static discharge ground line while he worked. I think the rubber padding was probably good for the walking, but I never saw any need for grounding all the years I was reloading.
The whole grounding thing with the mats and ground cables were part of their local SOP, but we in the Safety and Health office had no other source for grounding requirements for reloading activities. Like it has been said, "Tell it to the Marines!"
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
In the early 1970s, I was a federal safety and health specialist working at the Marine Corps Base in Quantico, VA. The Marine Corps competition shooting team had a special squad that did nothing but reload ammunition for the shooters. These guys made some very good ammunition, and it was the first place I ever saw electronic scales being used along with balance beam scales. The concrete floor was covered with thick rubber padding, and each Marine wore a static discharge ground line while he worked. I think the rubber padding was probably good for the walking, but I never saw any need for grounding all the years I was reloading.
The whole grounding thing with the mats and ground cables were part of their local SOP, but we in the Safety and Health office had no other source for grounding requirements for reloading activities. Like it has been said, "Tell it to the Marines!"
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
snuffy
Member
Paranoia runs rampant with new reloaders. They fear the unknown, so they come on forums like this one to ask questions. This is a good thing, which is why forums like this are a blessing that I didn't have available when I started loading in 1964.
Primers don't burn, they percuss. It's a detonation of an explosive caused by being slammed hard by a firing pin while being held,(trapped), against the bottom of the primer pocket. This causes a jet of flame to travel through the flash hole into the powder charge.
In a flintlock muzzleloader, the flint scrapes some steel off from the frizen which heats it to high temperature. These sparks fall on the priming charge causing ignition.
Primers are VERY safe to have around as long as you don't hit them with something heavy or expose them to very high temps.
Same goes for powder. It's not an explosive, even though if tightly confined in a steel capsule it can explode,(B.0.M.B.). The containers it's sold in are designed to be weak so they will rupture before the gas pressure can reach anywhere near explosive pressures. It does however burn at very high temps. Don't smoke or have any open flames present around powder, you'll be fine.
Primers don't burn, they percuss. It's a detonation of an explosive caused by being slammed hard by a firing pin while being held,(trapped), against the bottom of the primer pocket. This causes a jet of flame to travel through the flash hole into the powder charge.
In a flintlock muzzleloader, the flint scrapes some steel off from the frizen which heats it to high temperature. These sparks fall on the priming charge causing ignition.
Primers are VERY safe to have around as long as you don't hit them with something heavy or expose them to very high temps.
Same goes for powder. It's not an explosive, even though if tightly confined in a steel capsule it can explode,(B.0.M.B.). The containers it's sold in are designed to be weak so they will rupture before the gas pressure can reach anywhere near explosive pressures. It does however burn at very high temps. Don't smoke or have any open flames present around powder, you'll be fine.
ochmude
Member
I don't worry much about static with regard to setting anything off. I do, however, wipe down my powder hopper with a dryer sheet before I begin a reloading session. I find that if you can keep the static under control you get a much more consistent powder drop.
My father-in-law is the proverbial rocket scientist. Worked for Hercules/AlliantTech.
He is an expert in safety protocol around rocket propellant. Much of his career was spent in accident investigation, and he became an expect in electro-statics. Several different large accidents were caused by ESD that the floor engineers never imagined.
He even has a video of a building blowing up due to ESD....Why? Because the floor engineers were so sure my father-in-law was wrong about ESD being the cause, they re-created the circumstance in an abandoned warehouse....And he wasn't wrong.
That said, this is a small risk as a reloader, else we would hear about it all the time. Easy precautions: Do not install carpet in the reloading environment. Ground yourself before you start and periodically during the session. Take note of days when ESD seems to be an issue (as it is effected by weather).
I do not believe we need to go to the extremes of non-conductive shoes, grounding bracelets, etc. However, JohnnyGrey is right, if you are going to implement grounding, the best would be to ground yourself against your press/implement you are working with. This ensures you and the device are neutrally charged with regard to each other.
He is an expert in safety protocol around rocket propellant. Much of his career was spent in accident investigation, and he became an expect in electro-statics. Several different large accidents were caused by ESD that the floor engineers never imagined.
He even has a video of a building blowing up due to ESD....Why? Because the floor engineers were so sure my father-in-law was wrong about ESD being the cause, they re-created the circumstance in an abandoned warehouse....And he wasn't wrong.
That said, this is a small risk as a reloader, else we would hear about it all the time. Easy precautions: Do not install carpet in the reloading environment. Ground yourself before you start and periodically during the session. Take note of days when ESD seems to be an issue (as it is effected by weather).
I do not believe we need to go to the extremes of non-conductive shoes, grounding bracelets, etc. However, JohnnyGrey is right, if you are going to implement grounding, the best would be to ground yourself against your press/implement you are working with. This ensures you and the device are neutrally charged with regard to each other.
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html
Here's some unique getting zapped
If that won't light it, I dont think static discharge has a chance.
Here's some unique getting zapped
If that won't light it, I dont think static discharge has a chance.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
You want shag carpet under your reloading press?
No problem!
Just get a can of Static Guard at the grocery store, spray it, and fogedaboutit!
http://www.mystaticguard.com/static-guard-products/products.cfm
IMHO: There should be a can on every reloading bench, and packed with every new powder measure.
It's just that useful!
rcmodel
No problem!
Just get a can of Static Guard at the grocery store, spray it, and fogedaboutit!
http://www.mystaticguard.com/static-guard-products/products.cfm
IMHO: There should be a can on every reloading bench, and packed with every new powder measure.
It's just that useful!
rcmodel
My thoughts exactly. I'd prefer having things electrically neutral rather than giving any built up charge an easy target, so to speak.Halo said:
As everyone else has said, don't give it another thought. That's one reloading problem you don't have to worry about.
The Bushmaster
Member
Ground my presses? What for?!?...
Grizzly Adams
Member
Primers can be ignited via static electricity. There was a discussion on 1911.org if you would like to read it. http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=47621
I have never heard of powder being ignited by static electricity though.
I have never heard of powder being ignited by static electricity though.
Hobie
Member
No. It is mounted on a wooden bench.
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