Does business insurance really go up if a business fails to post 'gun buster' signs
- Thread starter wtr100
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Schwing
Member
Very rare. In any case, as a business owner, I would just drop my carrier and pick another one if this was part of the policy. The business owner is using this as an excuse.
Here is another question that should be asked when gun buster signs are posted-Does the merchant (or school or whatever) automatically assume 100% of the responsibility/liability of risk to patrons that might otherwise have been able to lawfully defend themselves ? Maybe the limits of their insurance coverage should also be required to be posted as well ?
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
We've discussed this quite a few times and to my knowledge, no one has ever posted the text of their insurance policy that says this is so, or even implies it.
sorry I'm not here a lot - seemed a reasonable question
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Oh, it is! I merely meant to point out that over the course of several years, no one's been able to present this as FACT.
The short answer is "no."Pyzon said:
The whole issue of a business' liability for the criminal acts of third parties is complex, but the bottom line is that a business has such liability only under extraordinary circumstance. Just putting up a "gun-buster" sign isn't going to do it.
As far as I know, we don't have anyone around here who would be in a position or have the background to really know, e. g., a senior underwriter or actuary for a major commercial lines insurance company.Sam1911 said:
patmccoy
Member
I retired as an agent five years ago, so am not up on changes since then, but in the 33 prior years I never found an insurance company that had such a requirement. Occasionally one would ask if firearms were kept on the premises, but I never had a negative contact after reporting that firearms were on the premise (as most Wyoming businesses had).
dusty14u
Member
I asked my wife about this over dinner. She has been in insurance for 40 yrs and is Vice President/Account Manager of a top insurance company. The last 20 years has been strictly commercial clients. She has the following certifications after her name- CPCU, CIC, CPIW, AAI, ARM, and AU. I am clueless as to all of her credentials but I am very proud of her and her accomplishments.
With that said , I posed the question to her and she said it has never been brought up or even mentioned in all her years, nor in any of the classes she attends to maintain her credentials. They talk over almost every thing that could affect a clients risks and it has never been mentioned at all. She works closely with the largest underwriters in the world- LLoyds, etcc.. and with many actuaries.
Good and thank you.dusty14u said:
It looks like we've found someone who actually knows something about the subject.
Zach S
Member
It could be as simple as the owner asking, and the agent telling them what they think is right.
I can think of a few instances, not related to business insurance, but car insurance, where a question was asked and rates were increased...
I can think of a few instances, not related to business insurance, but car insurance, where a question was asked and rates were increased...
The Lone Haranguer
Member
It could be as simple as the business owner blowing smoke.
bangswitch
Member
Seems as though this got answered, but on the face of it, if it were the case, that seems to me the most illogical and poorly thought out rationale an insurance company could come up with.
Posting a "No Guns" sign is like painting a target on the door. It tells crooks that no one is likely to be armed in there, so easy pickin's if they decide to exercise their total lack of concern for legalities and stick the place up. Making yourself a higher risk should make you pay higher premiums, right?
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
I own commercial property, one of which is leased to a business that does business in firearms. I can tell you that the fact that they do business in firearms did play into the premiums paid on the liability package on the property. I can also tell you that the fact that the business also deals in jewelry also comes into play on the premiums as well.
If a business tells you that their insurance company won't allow guns, that may be partially correct, but chances are it was at the decision of the business. A slight increase in premiums would allow for guns (assuming the claim is correct). Most insurance companies will insure you. The issue is one of premiums to be paid. If you are deemed a higher risk, you pay higher premiums. If you are not willing to pay the premiums, then you may be limited in what you are allowed to do and still remain insured.
I am guessing that most businesses that do not actually deal in firearms have any sort of such restriction in their insurance clause, or that if they do, they considered finding out what it would cost to have the restriction lifted.
I think that more than likely, most use the excuse as a means to prevent arguments with customers. "Insurance" is a higher power controlling the business...so arguing with the manager/owner is pointless because they are not the ones responsible.
If a business tells you that their insurance company won't allow guns, that may be partially correct, but chances are it was at the decision of the business. A slight increase in premiums would allow for guns (assuming the claim is correct). Most insurance companies will insure you. The issue is one of premiums to be paid. If you are deemed a higher risk, you pay higher premiums. If you are not willing to pay the premiums, then you may be limited in what you are allowed to do and still remain insured.
I am guessing that most businesses that do not actually deal in firearms have any sort of such restriction in their insurance clause, or that if they do, they considered finding out what it would cost to have the restriction lifted.
I think that more than likely, most use the excuse as a means to prevent arguments with customers. "Insurance" is a higher power controlling the business...so arguing with the manager/owner is pointless because they are not the ones responsible.
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